All steel J frames: is the weight worth it

[Dr_Kaufman]

howdy,
since i can't rent them, i'm wondering whether the extra weight in the s&w 640/Taurus 85 all steel provides noticeable difference in recoil compared to the airweight/ultra lite J frames. any experiences?

 

[isp2605]

I carried steel J frames (49 & 649) as my backup/covert/off duty everyday since 1975. I can tell the difference in recoil compared to an alloy frame J frame. Nothing that can't be handled but it is noticeable. I had a nickle Mod 38 for a while and really liked it but someone liked it better and made me an offer I couldn't refuse so I just had to take his money. I find no real difference carrying either the steel or alloy guns. It just depends on what you get use to.
It will be personal preference which to prefer one over the other. If you are somewhat recoil sensitive then go with the steel frames. If you've shot a lot and recoil is not an issue then pick up one of the alloy frames. Since either works OK for me I'd go with the one I could swing the best deal.

 

[MCgunner]

I replaced a Rossi stainless M88 with a Taurus M85UL for its light weight. One bonus was an upgraded DA trigger. Anyway, with .38+P it slaps your palm a little harder, but it is in no way hard to shoot. The Rossi had bigger grips, too, the Pachmayr Compacs. The M85 has the little boot grip it came with which I like. Put a Compac on it, though, and it'd tame it down a lot.

I say if you want the gun for concealment, go with the light weight UNLESS you want it in .357 magnum. Also, under 20 ounces is very desirable for a pocket revolver.

 

[jonsidneyb]

To me the answer is both yes and no.

If you use a hipgrip a steel gun feels very light becaue it is pulled into the body but is still comfortable and vanishes. I actually prefer the weight when using a hipgrip. It has just enough weight there that I know I have it but no more. When I have tried alloy guns carried like that I have to pat myself just to be sure it is there.

When I wear properly fitting blue jeans steel is still very nice. If I am wearing light pants then I start wishing for alloy as the pocket sags. Now when I stick the gun in a jacket pocket. Everything changes. No steel in a jacket pocket for me. The weight likes to start swinging back and forth, you can feel the weight, and you can see the pocket sag.

I solve the problem by having both.

The alloy guns are controlable with +P but the Steel I think is more controlable yet. I carry steel close to the body and alloy further from the body.

your milage may vary.

 

[10-Ring]

The steel frames are just more shootable than the allow / ultralight weight wheelguns. Really depends how much training you will do w/ this wheelgun & what you'll be shooting from it (full power magnum rounds or not).

 

[tubeshooter]

All steel will sag your pocket, but that's my only real gripe with it. The pros outweigh the cons IMO.

 

[ACP230]

I have a steel-framed M649 and an alloy-framed M38.
The M38 is much more unpleasant to shoot.

My steel gun is also more accurate than the alloy gun, although that may have nothing to do with the gun's construction. The 649 has had some trigger and action work so is easier to shoot well.

I carry the M38 when light weight and concealability are the most important things. I carry the 649 the rest of the time.

 

[BADUNAME13]

I also carry my Bodyguard every day as a BUG.
I just like the feel better.

 

[jonsidneyb]

I say get them both.

 

[weregunner]

Steel frame snubbie will be easier to shoot with under most circumstances. It will sit stock still in your hand and have little perceptable movement while the trigger is being pulled through. Lighter revolvers this size will move more.Maybe not much,but one has to place the shot quickly and accurately under extreme duress. Most of us never will have to shoot under those conditions in the real world. Recreating those conditions to practice with can br difficult. Jogging in place or time limit on how long a shot can be gotten off on may help. Light weight revolvers are for convience of carry. It is easy to go with the convience for many reasons.These are for the carry a lot and shot little theme. Some people have no trouble carrying and shooting these snubbies. Time for the truth. How many of us shoot the light weights and practice many rounds going down range for practice? And like it? The more practice with this specialty and harder to hit the target with revolver, the more confident we can become if things go wrong. For me anyway I will take the slight weight penalty and carry on the hip ,ankle,or jacket pocket rather than shoot a light weight. Have a Taurus 85CH. Will not trade it in for a titanium or scadium anytime soon. that is the choice.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have a S&W 638 (15 oz Airweight) and like how light it is for carry. I DO NOT recommend an alloy J frame .357 since those are only 12 oz and will kick like a mule. If you are buying a Mag then go steel because a mag round out of a 12 oz Airlite is very unpleasant. If you're going for a Mag then the 2" S&W Model 60 (Chiefs Special) the 2" Model 640 (Centennial) or the 2" Model 649 (Bodyguard) are probably the better choices.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

When it comes to alloy .357s there are those who say, "You won't notice recoil when the chips are down."

My response is, you probably won't get any hits, either -- because you won't shoot the gun enough to be proficient with it, or you will develop flinchitis. I say, go with a steel gun.

 

[Ala Dan]

The weight of all steel S&W J-frames is not a problem for me. Like my
friend isp 2605, I've carried models 36, 40, or 49 for a long, long
time~!

 

[Iggy]

I like the steel guns.. I carry a 640-1 in the front pocket of my Levi's.

I carried a Mdl 36 for years. My wife commandeered it forcing me to upgrade to the .357.

I like the extra weight when firing the gun.. I feel I am more accurate and can use more powerful rounds than in one of the lighter models.

 

[Coronach]

OK.

I carry a 640 (all steel), pretty much every hour that I'm awake. I cannot state this strongly enough; I do not even notice the weight. There have been times that I went "Oh, crap. Where's my gun?" and felt for the holster, only to realize that it was right where it should be.

Now...at the range? I'm man enough to admit that the little gun is a handful with defensive .357 loads. Heck, it's not particularly fun to shoot with .38 Spl. So, if I was offered a chance to tote a gun that was lighter, there is no way I would make the trade. Period. Full stop. Nyet.

Mike

 

[Pat Cannon]

I carry a Ruger SP101 which weighs 25 ounces. Even with the stock hard plastic grip, firing full power .357 was not painful, though I admit I went out and bought the Hogue rubber grip the next day. With the Hogue it's downright comfy. I have rented a couple of the airweight models in the 12-ounce range, and the different is huge. When you were a kid on the Fourth of July, did you ever hold one of those little Black Cat firecrackers and let it explode in your fist? No? OK, you were smarter than me. Anyway, that's pretty much what shooting the airweights feels like to me.

 

[Cosmoline]

All steel is better IMHO. They're light enough as it is. The 36 got it just right.

 

[dawei]

Dr Kaufman said: "howdy,
since I can't rent them, I'm wondering whether the extra weight in the S&W 640/Taurus 85 all steel provides noticeable difference in recoil compared to the airweight/ultra lite J frames. any experiences?"

Yes, the extra weight provides a 'noticeable & SIGNIFICANT difference in recoil compared to an Airweight®. You can really reduce the Airweight®'s recoil by changing to Pachmayr® grips. FWIW my wife thought having the Airweight was great (14oz) - until she shot it; (recoil was quite stout for her). Based upon this experience she now carries a steel frame gun that weighs ½ again as much (14 & 21oz respectively). I carry an Airweight® as my BUG/ODG; albeit with Pachmayr® grips. (These grips are nowhere near as 'compact' as the Boot Grips that come with the gun). You can save some $ and, compromise recoil somewhat; by getting a Taurus® UltraLite (17oz) vs a S&W Airweight® (14.5oz). Good luck with which ever you choose.

 

[Baba Louie]

...noticeable difference in recoil...?

Oh yeah! I've got a Chief Special 60 (.357), a Taurus 605 (.357) and an 85 (.38) and prolonged shooting (100 rds +) sessions begins to transition from fun to work with my middle finger (behind triggerguard) really beginning to smart (gotta get some Uncle Mike's shooting gloves). Having shot a couple of the airlites, I can see where they'd be OK to carry a lot and shoot (very) little.

Even with an adrenaline dump in a stress mode (which I've never experienced and tried to shoot when so influenced) where I might not "feel" the smart smackback, I think I'll stick to the heavier weighted snubbie. (which is still 5 oz. less than a 12 oz. can of refreshing adult cereal malted beverage or soda)

YMMV

Now, the S&W 317 airlite (8 rds of .22 lr) is another matter altogether. The challenge there is mastering the trigger pull weight in DA and keeping things in some type of group as opposed to a pattern at 3 - 5 yds. That one is F.U.N. to shoot.

I'd like to find and shoot one of the discontinued .32 mag 431/432 just for grins, snickers and an un-scientific comparison. I think they'd be an ideal little carry piece.

 

[Dirty Bob]

If I could only have one, it would be the steel -- or even better: stainless.

All steel will give you lighter recoil, so you'll be more likely to practice.
It will also be quicker from shot to shot, because of the lighter recoil.
Steel guns may also last longer, though most people don't shoot enough to wear out an Airweight in a lifetime.

If you can carry in some form of waistband holster, or with a Barami Hip Grip, you'll find the weight is not an issue.

The 15-oz. Airweight is the choice for pocket holster carry, but it is much less pleasant to shoot.

I like the recommendation to get them both! That prepares you for more situations and lets you practice with the all-steel gun.

Edited to add:
Dr_Kaufman, If you tell us where you are, you may find a THR member who'd let you try both at a range and make an informed decision. It really boils down to what fits your needs.

All my best,
Dirty Bob

 

[orionengnr]

I've had all of the above

The steel 49, the alloy 37, the Scandium 340 and 360.

For carrying, the AirLite Scandiums are (obviously) the best. A 12 oz revolver in the front pocket is a natural. The 15 oz AirWeight 37 is almost as light and costs about 1/2 as much. The steel 49 was the same size but did not work for me in pocket carry, and if I'm going to go IWB and carry a 20+ oz gun, I have better choices available.

Bottom line for me, the best compromise (and the only one I still have) is the 37.

YMMV.

 

[Dr_Kaufman]

Edited to add:
Dr_Kaufman, If you tell us where you are, you may find a THR member who'd let you try both at a range and make an informed decision. It really boils down to what fits your needs.

I live in Philadelphia.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Isn't it nice we have all these choices?


One day, I'll sit down with current catalogs and count up the different small-to-medium size revolvers. Maybe I'll include those discontinued within the past 20 years - - There's a lot of those still available, too. With ONLY those in caliber .38 and larger, and ONLY counting S&W, Colt, Charter, and Taurus, I bet there'll be 20 or so distinct types and models. I believe this indicates the gun makers figured there was good reason to provide all those alternatives.

I like a couple of different types. Some guys turn up their noses at ANY Colt. Others feel S&Ws are all obsolete since Ruger brought out their short double action types. Hey, I'm just glad we can all choose what suits us best.

I've carried --and liked-- several steel framed snubbies, Colts and Smiths. If I was forced by cirumstances or regulations to carry a .357 and magnum loads, I'd sure use a steel frame piece - - Probably my three-inch Model 65. But for poking around town, I usually have either a Colt Agent or an S&W Model 37 in my pocket. I'm not a part time pistol packer, though. Any time I'm out of my house, I'm armed. Not in my car, not in my brief case. On my person. But since I retired, I don't feel the need to carry a big gun and two reloads. I think it's nice to have a lightweight sidearm. I'd certainly not try to force my choice on anyone else.

I have no illusions about the power of these little alloy framed monsters. About once a year, I put a cylinderful of my heavyish carry loads through each one. But I regularly practice with downloaded or standard velocity 158 gr. ammo. I'll put all the shots in the five-zone of a silhouette, one handed, double action, at ten feet. Using the sights, two handed, I'll do the same at 15 yards. The longer range stuff is mainly just for fun.

If I feel I need any greater capability than my lightweight revolvers provide, I carry a .45 Commander or a Hi Power.

Best,
Johnny

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

If you plan to shoot what you carry, definitely go with all steel. The fly weights are ok with target wadcutters, but your hand isn't going to hold up to much practice shooting with full house loads if you buy an alloy framed hideout .38. They are meant to be carried a lot and shot a little. That's because your hand will wear out, not the gun.

 

[Dr_Kaufman]

thanks to everyone who's responded so far.

a related question: is the ruger sp101 noticeably more difficult to conceal that the smith 640/taurus 85? i know the dimensions are greater.