(alleged) speed loaders

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KAR120C

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Hello all, I'm new to the High Road, and new to revolvers. I could use some advice. I Just bought my first revolver (S&W 340PD) two weeks ago. Since it is my carry weapon, and only holds 5 rounds (one of its few short comings compared to an auto) I thought it prudent to purchase a speed loader, an HKS #36. Loading bullets from this thing is anything but speedy. I'm very disappointed with it. The bullets wobble around in it, pointing in (slightly) different directions. This prevents them from seating quickly and easily in the cylinder. It is a minor annoyance at the range, but in a high stress self defense situation, where I really need it, it could get me killed. Am I somehow using this thing wrong? Does somebody make a speed loader that holds the bullets firmly in line, so that they seat quickly?


While I'm at it... might as well ask the following too. The barrel is stamped "no less than 120 gr bullet", but the instruction manual says nothing about this. I've heard others say it was to avoid flame cutting of the frame, or crimp jumping, etc... What's the truth?

On the 7th round I fired from it the trigger failed to reset until I jiggled the cylinder a little. I've since run over 200 rounds through it with no further issues. I'm going to bring it back to the shop and have them open it up just to be sure, but is this considered OK behavior for a brand new S&W?
 
Bianchi speed strips are much better than traditional speed loaders.

On the 7th round I fired from it the trigger failed to reset until I jiggled the cylinder a little.
Click to expand...

That's more likely you than the gun, since Smith & Wesson revolvers are made with overkill trigger return mechanisms, but if it's a new gun, there's no reason not to have it looked at.
 
Speedloaders take a good deal of practice. And if you neglect your revolvers a while, you'll have to "re-teach" yourself the speedloader technique.
 
The Safariland "push to release" speedloaders are often considered the fastest available reload for these - and they're available in five-shot.

One thing puzzles me though: on my HKS36 speedloaders (my old Charter Arms Undercover 38spl snubbie uses the same speedloaders) I do NOT get the effect you're talking about. They're in straight and tight until release. Odd.

Look here for a good source of the Safariland type (your gun is a "J Frame"):

http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=52&min=3&dyn=1&

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Lighter loads travel faster at the initial moment of firing. So they hit the back of the barrel faster. Given the same overall power level (net muzzle energy) a load with a heavier slug will be easier on the gun. Lighter loads will also use faster-burning powder, so that speeds up the process of topstrap erosion.

But remember that since your gun is a 357, you can fudge on that in 38Spl or 38+P. I wouldn't hesitate to use the hot Cor-Bon 110grain 38+Ps in that gun, fr'instance.

The one "hitch" you had on shot seven might have been a fluke. I'd run a couple hundred more rounds through and if it's OK, chalk it up to break-in.

Recommended loads:

In 357, there's a couple of "moderate power/recoil" loads that make sense in that gun: Remington's "Golden Saber" and ProLoad's "Tactical Lite" both feature 125grain JHPs that perform well at the speeds you'll get with 'em out of that barrel (1,150fps - 1,200fps ballpark). Cor-Bon's 125grain "full house" will come close to 1,400 and be a REAL handful in that thing :eek:.

In 38+P, Cor-Bon's 110 and 125 +Ps are hot as hell for 38s. Good stuff. Speer's new 135grain Gold Dot +P is getting a lot of attention as a snubbie-optimized high-tech 38 load. Bufallo Bore has some crazy-hot 38+Ps - I would NOT recommend their 158grain lead because it's liable to "pull" (lead is slick, see below) but the Gold Dot 125 38+P with the speed cranked up will have merit. Winchester's 130grain "Supreme" 38+P is a good slug too...the 135 is *probably* better but not by that much.

NOTE ON BULLET "PULLING": superlight revolvers have a problem. On recoil from the first round, the remaining four are yanked backwards with such force that the rounds can come out slightly. Shoot again, and the remaining three are subjected to the same stress yet again. By the time you get to the last one or two, they might stretch so bad they poke out the front of the cylinder - which can't spin any more. Instant doorstop until you literally shove them back in far enough to get the cylinder open and discard them. Bad news in a gunfight.

In your gun, any hot load should be tested for this: shoot four, measure the fifth. Do so a few times. Lead bullets of "combat strength" (38+P or better) will be particularly vulnerable.

Speer claims the 135 +P Gold Dot is engineered to resist this problem.
 
Thanks everyone for the comments so far.

"That's more likely you than the gun,"

Really?! Well I freely admit I'm inexperienced in revolvers, but how could it be me? The only variable that I see as being under my control is the speed with which I pull the trigger, and I'd expect the mechanism to be able to reset the trigger whether I pull it as fast as I can, or as slow as I can (and as far as I can recall I pulled it the same for every shot)

As to "practicing" with a wobbly speed loader... I accept it is my responsibility to practice with the gun (aiming, handling, etc...). That comes with the territory, and if you're not willing to practice you probably shouldn't carry. But the speed loader is an entirely different matter. I think it is a very bad idea to try to overcome a design deficiency by practicing how to work around the piece of junk. I think I'll bring it back to the shop too. Maybe there really is something wrong with it. I've got 125 gr. Gold Dots in it and they rattle and tilt with the slightest shake.

Jim March,
I appreciate the lengthy reply. Good info. I've heard that Gold Dots are coming out in 135 gr. and thought I'd try them next. I'll look up those speed loaders you mentioned too. You know, now that I think about it I wonder if my "hitch" was due to crimp jumping, instead of a problem with the trigger. I don't remember now what I was firing at the time, It was either 158 gr round nose CCI 38's, or 158 gr SJSP Magtech 357's. I suppose it is possible that the next round in line had a particullarly loose fit in its shell case, and had crept far enough forward to bind up just a little, preventing the mechanism from advancing. All I had to do was jostle the cylinder a little bit and everything reset fine.

So far all I have is an Uncle Mike's pocket holster. I'd like to get a shoulder holster eventually. Any recommendations?
 
<scratches head>

The "hitch" you describe in your first post doesn't exactly sound like a pulled round, but...it IS possible. Except..."shaking it" shouldn't have fixed things if this is what was up.

You mentioned CCI 38s. Were those aluminum cased? I seem to recall somewhere that aluminum cases are kinda "slick" and can enhance "pull" in the light guns like yours.

What else...

I disparaged lead rounds for your gun. There's an exception: 148grain target wadcutters are typically "in there" pretty good and they're of low power. They're a fine practice load. They suck at coming out of speedloaders though.

Understand, this whole thing about "pulling" is annoying, but it's NOT a good reason to scrap your gun. You simply have to be more picky about testing potential carry loads. Not to the extreme 200-round degree the autoloader guys have to deal with :) but it's still part of the price you pay for very low carry weight.

You might consider making a tool to push rounds back in from the front if this happens at the range. Something like a 34cal or so copper or brass tube about 6" long and fairly strong - you'd put it down over the nose of the round and gently tap from the front. You want a tube that isn't as fat as the end of the cylinder bore.

Once a round has been stretched and then compressed like this, DO NOT fire it. Give it to the rangemaster and explain that it's now unsafe to fire from ANY gun...if you throw it away, some moron may find it and fire it.

---

A bad speedloader isn't worth dealing with. We agree there. Try the Safarilands.
 
I was shooting my new 342 and had the same (I think) problem with the "hitching." Mine turned out to be the cheap reloads I was shooting pulling loose a bit and jamming up the cylinder. The cylinder gap on my 342 is REALLY tight and if the round pulls much at all it will just barely nose up against the forcing cone and stall the cylinder enough to screw up the trigger reset. I could tap the cylinder and it would fall into place. I used a really complicated procedure to fix the problem. I quit shooting the cheap reloads. No problem with gold dots, SXT, remington, winchester, etc...

I'm up to 200 rds since the last of the reloads and no further problems, other than the sore spot on the side of my trigger finger. 100 rds of mixed +p in one sitting was a BAD idea. I am getting really attatched to this little blaster though.

Can't help you with a shoulder holster, although one of those minimalist holsters like the Galco executive (or whatever they call it) might be cool for such a light thing. I use a Ahern pocket holster or a Galco ankle glove for mine.
 
Recommend the Safariland speedloader

I have both an HKS and a Safariland speedloader for my medium-frame revolver. The HKS is easier to load but, as you report, a little slow to use.

Where the HKS works by (1) holding the speedloader against the empty cylinder and (2) turning a knob, the Safariland works by simply (1) pushing the speedloader against the empty cylinder.

It's admittedly a bit of a pain to load the Safariland. You fill it with loose cartridges, then flip it over fast, to hold it down against a hard surface like a table or bench. (You can also use a hardcover book, which removes the need for the "quick flip.") Then you push down, and twist, a shallow knob on top, locking the rounds in place. That step usually takes me a few tries.

Once loaded, the Safariland does the faster job of loading the gun. It is also a little more compact than the HKS -- good for CCW.

No experience with speed strips. People here seem to like 'em.
 
First off, welcome to the board, good to have you.

I use HK speedloaders, just because I've never picked up any safariland like I keep meaning to, and some of mine will rattle like you're talking about. But those are the ones I've had for a few years, if your new one is doing that, sounds like something might be wrong with it.

Speed strips are useful for carrying ammo, I usually carry at least 2 with me. They carry really flat in the pocket but they are slower to reload with.
 
I have been very happy with a variety of HKS speedloaders. They are especially helpful for loading Harrington and Richardson and Taurus nine-shot revolvers. You sometimes need to push the rounds all the way in if the chambers or charging holes are tight.

Drakejake
 
If you are using the aluminum cased ammo,that could explain the speedloader thing too...a buddy says they don't worin his HKS's.....something about the rim being too big or something....
I use HKS for both my revolvers and have had no problems..except my own slowness with reloads....but mechanically they work fine for me......the push one's ARE better though,but harder to conceal in a front pocket(where I carry my reload.:cool:
 
The CCI's I was talking about were in fact aluminum. Not terribly impressive in most regards, but at $6.49/50 they are by far the cheapest deal I could find for practice ammo. So anyway... perhaps they are more slippery than brass, and perhaps they were pulling, however... now that I think about it they are .38's and the cylinder is long engough for .357's, so I'd think they'd have to pull a long way before they'd bind. Just how much of the bullet is hidden in the casing anyway?

The CCI's are not to blame for the bad speedloader performance. It is loose no matter what I put in it, including the Gold Dots.
 
I've always used speed strips for my six shooters (load two at a time) and these speed loaders for my j frame:
i_1126.jpg


My dad uses the safariland speed loader for his GP100 and it's been good for him.
 
Opps!

They are Maxfire Speedloaders. Started using them a few years back. They're made of rubber. No moving parts. Plug the rounds in the cylinder and peel back on the thumb ring.

I like speed strips a lot too. Not nearly as fast as moon clip and not as fast as a traditional speed loader, but easy to use and easy to pocket.
 
I've used the HKS #10 speedloaders for my two Taurus Model 63 38 SPLs for some time and find them both easy to use and fast. I was surprised at how easy they were to use the first time. Maybe different models vary?
 
I have not found speedloaders usefull either

I have a .357 snubbie and pretty much have given up on the "speed loaders" I have a little pouch on the right hand side of my belt that holds about 30 rounds. I open the cylinder put the gun in my left hand and put the rounds in one by one and it's faster (for me) then the speed loader.

As far as your gun being that it was brand new and probably in good condition I would use one of those "lead -clean gun cloth" on the face of the cylinder after shooting and put a little break free on the moving parts.
The gap between the cylinder and barrel is real close on new guns so a little powder can make it difficult to shoot,you probably have a fine gun, just clean it lube it then shoot and repeat untill you're used to the gun.
 
First of all look at all of the HKS speed loader line. Some are designed with the shake and some hold the rounds tightly (this is intentional not a design or manufacturing flaw) some work better with some movement.

The Safariland speed loaders are generally faster but less durable and secure (have never had the rounds fall out of an HKS but have on the other).

Try this grasp the speed loader with your finger tips protruding past the bullet noses (use them to align with cylinder and guide rounds) turn loader slightly to align with holes (hold both vertically gravity helps) push it home and turn the knob.
 
Buy a few Safariland Comp II's and go out to the range and practice. With patience and practice you can get fast with speedloaders. Don't give up on them because they are MUCH faster than either speed strips or dropping the rounds in by hand. Patience and Practice.
 
if you are right-handed, hold the revolver in the left hand with fingers on the cylinder to prevent it from moving. Holding the speedloader in your right hand, insert the tips of the rounds into the cylinder and release the rounds by turning the knob. If any rounds have failed to go all the way in, tap them down. Then move the cylinder back into firing position. Pretty easy. I love using the HKS number .22 HR with my nine-shot Harrington & Richardson and Taurus revolvers. You preload the speedloaders at home so you can quickly reload at the range. It is very slow going putting nine .22lr rounds into one of these revolvers. I also have a High Standard nine shot .22 mag revolver but do not have a speedloader to use with it. So I have to laboriously load each round into the cylinder.

Drakejake
 
Just bought three #36 J frame HKS speedloaders last week.

In between the aluminum knob and the plastic "cylinder" on the newer HKS's is a plastic washer cut like a pentagonal maltese cross. The ends of these fit inside the holes made for the cartridge heads and act to keep the case heads flat. Older HKS loaders did not have these dohickeys that remind me of a full moon clip, and thus let the shells rattle a bit. While the plastic dohickeys do keep the shells reasonably oriented, to have the cartridges really locked down would make it more difficult to load than allowing for a little slack for each shell to align with it's chamber.

When using a speedloader your fingers should extend well beyond the bullet tips with the shells indexing between fingers. That way your fingers will locate the flutes in the front of the revolver's cylinder which are cut between the chambers. So the cartridges will line up with the chambers.

If you are that concerned about it, the older pinned and recessed revolvers ( K and N framed ) Smith chambered for 357's have recesses at the back face of the cylinders that could be lightly reamed/beveled and the non-recessed 38's could also be lightly gone over with a reloading de-burring tool. I can't say on the J frame 357's. I don't and won't have a post-sellout made gun with or without the internal lock.

One thing to consider: if you don't hit with the first five you probably won't have the time or ability to do a reload.

Another is that the ogives of lead round nose bullets make them the easiest to reload with using a speedloader, Bianchi strip, or singly, with a handful of shells from a drop pouch. Guess what? That's why they were and remain that shape, even before speedloaders came along for widespread use.
 
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release the rounds by turning the knob
Click to expand...

But the beauty of the SL Comp loaders is that you just push it home and close the cylinder - no twist. Plus, I've never had one get loose the way some of my HKS loaders are. The Comp I version is more compact and might suit concealed carry purposes better, though there's less to grab.
 
I use HKS speed loader is K, L, and N frame guns. You need to practice. Just as you do with mag changes in semi's. My own best time is less than nine seconds for 12 rounds down range, all COM.
I'm still meaning to get some of the Safariland Comp 2's. I think they'd take a second off my time and they don't have the big handle the Comp 3's have. No one stocks them where I live.
 
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