Always de-escalate the situation????

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ace1001

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I have sat calmly in my truck, listening to all the things this guy said he was going to do to me, all the while with a .45 in my lap, knowing it wasn't going to turn out that way at all. Remaining calm wasn't cooling things down, so I had to get angry to get his attention. Then we could both stare each other down and reach some sort of truce, and he didn't have to know about my .45 and I didn't have to find out what he had in his truck.
I had thought before to remain calm and let it wear down, but that just empowers/infuriates some people. Any psychological ideas for handling tense situations?
The .45 removes the fear. I was fearing for him. How do I bring this guy down emotionally without having to use the gun. Holding the door shut was my defense move, not real macho, but effective. Ace
 
Depends on why was angry with you in the first place. Ill be the first to ask: Why not drive away?
 
He was blocking the road with soft edges and I had a semi, couldn't back up fast enough to be useful. Public road. Thought I met him too fast earlier. It was fast but under limit. Gave him his half. He didn't like my tires. Alchohol I think from the way he acted. He was driving really slow. Can it alter your speed perception? Ace
 
I'd say "Always de-escalate the situation, when the situation permits." Some situations require an instant go-to-guns response- no opportunity to do anything but respond as fast as you can with lethal force. Even so, the effort to communicate should be part of the process- yelling whatever is appropriate to the situation as you get off the line of attack and deploy your own weapon. "STOP, POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPON!" or the like- given time, if possible.

IMHO you handled it well and both walked away unhindered. Pax, thanks for the link to The Animal's site. Useful material there.

I'd be remiss if I failed to mention Skip Gochenour's material on the ADEE model (avoid, de-escalate, disengage, escape, evade) at http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2006/02_StudyDay.htm . Ace, you might find that worth while as well if you haven't seen it before.

lpl/nc
 
"STOP, POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPON!"
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Umm...wouldn't that be impersonating an officer of the law? Would be really bad if a Real Cop was nearby...

De-escalate is your responsibility if you carry. You inside a vehicle, him out, seems like you'd have a hard time justifying display of deadly force.
 
You're SUPPOSED to call the police when something bad happens, right? Why not start by shouting for them?

lpl/nc
 
I would also think this situation/experience gives validity to carrying OC as a non lethal option in the force continuum scale.
 
How about, "Stop! Police (I'm calling out to them wherever they are)! Drop your weapon (to the BG who has no idea of wether I AM the police or I am simply calling out for their assistance). --just making the inflection a bit more ambiguous.
 
"STOP, POLICE, DROP YOUR WEAPON!"

Umm...wouldn't that be impersonating an officer of the law? Would be really bad if a Real Cop was nearby...

De-escalate is your responsibility if you carry. You inside a vehicle, him out, seems like you'd have a hard time justifying display of deadly force.
Click to expand...

My CFP instructor wrote it out on the white board this way:
STOP! (stop the attack)
POLICE! (Police please help me!)
DROP YOUR WEAPON! (Or I'm going to fire on you!)
 
I know what your feelin' bro...I have had a guy road rage on me before at a stop light and get out of his car and punch and kick my car windows. It took everything I had not to get out of my car...I locked my car and wrote his plates down and when the light turned green I took action by driving around him and exiting to the closest safe place. I knew if he broke the glass of my car and attacked me I could get to my weapon.

When I got home I called the police and filed a report...My pride was hurt and I never want to feel that again...but the police officer thanked me for not shoting the man.
 
live your life commited to avoidance, deterance, and descalation. but always know when each has failed.

i think you did a fine job keeping you cool
 
35Rem wrote:

You inside a vehicle, him out, seems like you'd have a hard time justifying display of deadly force.
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I can think of a few occasions when someone shot a person approaching their vehicle and got away with it. Except in their pocket book.
 
One of the most useful aspects of force-on-force training for me was seeing how much a student's de-escalation skills influenced the outcome of a scenario. Many, many times, it was the student's response that determined whether (A) no guns clear leather and student goes on his or her merry way, or (B) everybody gets shot. Granted, this is in the imperfect laboratory of scenario-based training -- but interesting, nontheless.
 
If he had gotten the door open, I COULD NOT allow him to take away my weapon OR return to his vehicle. It would have gotten ugly if he wouldn't comply. I would have had to taken control until LE arrived. Ace
 
Rather than that, consider expressing the fact that you are in fear and feel threatened. Particularly if there are witnesses present.

I remember years ago interviewing victims of armed robbery and asking them, were you in fear of your life or great bodily harm? ( This is an element of the crime needed for prosecution). The victims would frown and say Hell no! on tape and then the whole investigation would go into a different pile with the prosecutors.

There is no shame in saying you are in fear and scared. The witnesses will remember what they heard you say before the gunshots.
 
Road rage people are idiots. Usually they have personal problems (problems at work, wife is cheating, insecurity issues, etc) and they then vent them on the road against other drivers. Many road ragers feel their anger and eruptions are justified (the "I was wronged" mindset). I've even seen "born-again Christians" turn into completely vile people on the road, and actually not realize it.

In the majority of situations, there is no reason to shoot a road rager unless he is armed. You have to swallow your pride and react with your brain not your emotions.
 
I have found that smiling often helps. Don't necessarily look at the guy, but smile. Some people are just out to share their hatred and misery with others and want to provoke you. They often move on if it don't work. That don't work in all situations, but some.

The big thing is to think about anything you might have done to escalate the situation like flipping them off or something. It is not necessarily your fault, but if you did something that made the other guy snap, it might be good to avoid that if possible. It reminds me of a thread a here a while back. A number of bicycle riders complaining about cars harassing them and such. In almost every story, the bicycle rider flipped off the driver before the incident. Again, just because it isn't your fault doesn't mean you didn't help escalate it. Not always, but it is good to think about it.
 
Yes you always attempt to deescalate
Sometimes that means pushing back a little
I drive constantly, my four month old tuck as over 17,000 miles on it

I have learned that sitting passively will be taken as a sign of weakness and intimidation by all but those that simply want to let you know that they think you screwed up

Many time I have to give the ,mean look or the annoyed look for a second and then act as if I'm dismissing them by acting like I'm playing with my radio or something equally trivial

If I feel that they are a little more serious I will pick up my phone and let them wonder who I might be calling

If they intentionally corner me or box me in I will take that as a direct threat and actually dial the phone where they can see me do it, they should figure out quickly how many people I would be calling in that situation who only have a three digit phone number

There is no way to really win a stupid fight like that so de-escalation is the only intelligent option
 
" How do I bring this guy down emotionally without having to use the gun."

Do the unexpected.....apologizes. This will disarm most normal people, if they don't accept your apology you can go from there.
 
Always de-escalate the situation????
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If you are not a cop, its not your job. Drive away. If he follows, call 911. If no cell, drive to the police or fire station or a hospital where you can usually find a cop or two. You may be confusing “de-escalation” with the need to be a “reluctant participant". I would never try de-escalation, I am just leaving the situation and most likely without saying a word.
 
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