A bit of an "encounter" this evening... (long)

[Rezin]

Did a few things right, did a few things wrong.

I live in the last apt in a small building. RIGHT next door is my motorcycle shop, and 2 doors down is a bar...

Behind my apt, is a large field and a few cars parked (my cars, neighbors, etc.) we often get drunks coming and going out of the bar, that can't resist spinning their wheels, and tossing rocks everywhere... and lately, they have been blocking in out cars as well.

Tonight, We hear the typical engine spininng, wheels spinning, rocks flying, but this one guy, he's really having fun... Sliding around sideways etc.... He leaves, no biggie.

10 Mins later, he is back. Enters the same way he left (sliding sideways etc..), and stops right behind my car, and blocks it in..

I go out (wrong choice 1) but I leave my gun on the table (probably the right choice) and say "Hey man, can you move your truck, you are blocking me in." I was loud, but polite. He looks at his friend and laughs, and says "Yeah, I'll move it at 1 or 2 when we leave the bar."

At this point I go to the car, and say, "see man, you are blocking me in...." but he ignores me, and heads for the back door of the bar.

I decide that since the owner of the bar is our landlord for both the apartment, and our business property, I'll go into the bar, and see if he'll tell this guy to move his truck....

He is in there, I walk in a (relatively) calmly explain that this guy was driving crazy, and then blocked me in, and when I asked, he ignored me. Thought maybe he could help....

Well, truck dude jumps in my face in the bar.. says things like, Lets go outside etc. Typical blowhard stuff. I notice I am surrounded. Don't know most of them. But the bartender, and my landlord and his wife are all telling dude to back down.

He continues to get in my face, various threats etc. I found myself reach back to my normal carry position.... I dunno why, since I know I left it at home (suddenly maybe this was the WRONG choice....)

My landlord caught this. Looked at me and shook his head no.. I nodded, and put my shirt down. (I didn't exagerate any movements or anything to make it seem to the "threat" that I was packing or not.

I leaned back on the pool table, and remained as calm as I could.. Had a rush of adrenaline going, but not too bad. He would walk away, and then come back.

I never antagonized him, or acted like "oh yeah" etc, like I proabably would have done in the past.... I did try to reason with him, explain what was up etc...

Yeah, I tried to reason with a drunk. lol.... That's when I thought, "out" I knew I should leave ASAP... and tried to think of the best way. I asked the bartender for a phone. They don't HAVE one.......

Some other dide got between us, I think was a friend of his. He said to me something like I should go, as this guy would knock me out or something........ Yeah. Big drunk guy, me cornered, unarmed. Lots of noise, spectatiors etc.

I looked at the people I knew, shrugs, and noticed the path to the door was clear. I said fuggit and went out the back. I got out of the bar, and (ashamedly) jogged back to my apt....

I opened the door, and (BAD) told my wife to give me my gun..

she said, "now, you can't escalate this. Don't go back./.."

Amazingly, I knew she was right. Even rushed with adreneline.. I put my pitol on, and sat down on the couch to finish my movie.

We decided to go take a photo of his truck, in case he vandalized my car, but as we were coming out, they were all leaving..... we stood there for a min or two, and went in.

Took only a few mins to calm down... I didn't over react.

The things I don't like: I went for my gun... sort of... It wasn't there, but if it was.... would I have pulled it? I think it may have been a bit early if that were the case, so I am re-evaluating my carry habits etc. I dunno WHY I put my hand there... I don't like the fact that I did tho...

I also should have stayed inside. Really, in the grand sceme, who cares if they turf some gravel..... But it is annoying, and I have asked folks to move their trucks/cars before. Every other time it's been "oh, sorry man." or "sure thing." I didn't expect confrontation.

I shouldn't have escalated it by entering the bar to get their help, but thought I'd have backup there as well (and did) Figguered a good word from them would sooth things a bit. (it didn't, lol)

I really hate my hasty exit..... I should have not "quick stepped"... still feel a lil twinge of "wuss" there...

I most certainly should have never thought to go back armed.... it was fleeting, but it was there.

The things I did right. I LEFT THE GUN IN THE HOUSE and I didn't go back after I made an "escape"

I didn't antagonise him, or anyone else, I remained calm for the most part.

I'll see my Landlord tomorrow (new carpet w00t!) and see what his take on it was....... I am especially interested in what he saw.... Knowing I am usually armed.

I also wonder if I'll see this guy again, since he seems to have known me (was using my first name at the bar. I have a VAUGE recolection of seeing him before) and presumably knows of my shop next door....... Lets hope he wakes up and either regrets it, or has no memory....

 

[nfl1990]

I dunno WHY I put my hand there... I don't like the fact that I did tho...

Same reason a person during the middle ages might rest his hand on his sword hilt, it's comforting to know that your method of defending yourself is right where it should be.

I think that you were right in going out to ask the guy to move, but should have brought your CCW with, (had he been carrying, and drawn you'd have been screwed, heck even if he wasn't 4 or 5 guys could beat you pretty even if were drunk.

 

[nfl1990]

by any chance is there an icecream place in between the motercycle shop, and bar?

 

[MechAg94]

Is getting the car towed an option?

Yeah, asking is no problem. Shouldn't have pursued. Picking a fight when you know you are armed is bad, even if you didn't really do that. Also, pulling a gun when you are not actually in danger yet might not be too good. Especially in a bar. At least in Texas, carrying in a bar would be a no no.

 

[Rezin]

by any chance is there an icecream place in between the motercycle shop, and bar?

Nope...

 

[Lupinus]

reaching for your gone wasn't a bad thing. You went in there for a legit reason, to try and get his truck moved, and he threatened you. That is what carrying a gun is for. Kicker is most state cwp laws I have seen forbid carrying into a place where alcohol is served.

So frankly you didn't do anything wrong IMO. You tried asking nicly, didn't work so you went to ask the owner of the bar to ger the guy to move the truck. Not a bad move either. When he got in your face and you felt threatened your reached for your gun which wasn't there. NOT a bad move. Now not being there I don't know the level of threat but speaking in general terms- you were threatned you went for your gun thats what it is there for. If you carry a gun but wont use it to protect yourself then you might as well leave it at home and save youself the trouble. Now that said you also left it at home going into a bar which was a good move as it is usualy illegal from the laws I have read.

You stayed cool you stayed calm and you kept a situation from escalating into a bar brawl. You did go home and pick up the gun thinking of going back. Was that wrong? Likly but you exorcised the self restraint to not go do it.

So you tried asking, you tried asking someone else, when you were threatend you instintivly reached for your gun even though it wasn't there, you kept a calm head even though charged with adrenalin kept the situation from escalting and even if it hurt your pride left through the back door.

All fine and well with not a thing wrong. Only a splotch wrong and that was picking up the gun intending to go back in there which you didn't so any wrong from that is negligable. My advise is if its still there or the next time he parks behind your car call the police non emergency number to see if they deal with cars blocking you in to tow, if not ask if they have the number of a towing service that will tow at the vehicle owners expense if blocking you in.

 

[Lupinus]

I think that you were right in going out to ask the guy to move, but should have brought your CCW with, (had he been carrying, and drawn you'd have been screwed, heck even if he wasn't 4 or 5 guys could beat you pretty even if were drunk.

Risk assment comes in here along with local law. As I said in last post the states I have looked into the concealed laws prohibit carrying into a buisness where alcohol is sold to be consumed on the premisis.

 

[Rezin]

Risk assment comes in here along with local law. As I said in last post the states I have looked into the concealed laws prohibit carrying into a buisness where alcohol is sold to be consumed on the premisis.

For the record, you can carry in a bar here (PA). The thought of entering the bar wasn't there when I left the gun. This was "suppsoed" to be a:

"Yo man, can you back up a bit?"

"sure man, sorry"



Who needs a gun for that?

Proof again, that ANYTHING can turn into a situation.......

 

[Lupinus]

ah ok Rez misunderstood

In that case you did a messup in that you left the gun

But it still was no where near a mistake to reach or at least put your hand clsoe to where your gun normally would be by instinct.

Think of it in terms of a martial artist. There isn't much sense in learning them if when threatened you wont use the skills you have. As the martial artist would have taken a ready stance to defend himself you took a ready stance to draw your gun same thing in my book. Also same thing in so far as if you had the gun and drew it. I don't advocate just drawing a gun at the slightist hint of conflict but when threatend you are threatend. Would you rather pull the gun and defuse the situation by the guy knowing he was outgunned or let it escalate untill the guy charged you possibly wit ha weapon and you had no choice but to shoot? Not for brandishing at the drop of a hat but I'd rather draw and defuse the situation jsut from the sight of my gun if I could rather then having to shoot the guy.

 

[walking arsenal]

Meh, this sort of deal happens to me al the time, i have an odd driveway that routinely gets blocked in. If i see the guy i ask him politley to move his vehicle, once, if he refuses i have it towed at his expense. Simple enough.

 

[XavierBreath]

So this guy slides into a gravel parking area slinging gravel all over your vehicle. You own a motorcycle shop.
Am I the only one wondering why he still had a windsheild in that truck when he returned?

As far as the rest, I can't judge or second guess you. You know what you did wrong and won't do again. You don't need me to tell you that. Your desire to go back armed was natural. Your decision not to was maturity managing your pride. Good man.

 

[Lupinus]

Xav-
Because not all bikers are animals...now don't get me wrong I'd be tempted to but the "Hey your a biker why didn't you smash his windshield" thing is bogus. I grew up around bikers. Some of them are outright animals, some are somewhat animals but have redeaming qualities, some of really nice guys but you don't want to mess with them cause they will finish it, and then a good portion of them are big teddy bears in leather.

Sorry if I took that the wrong way, but the "biker" stereotypes annoy the hell outa me.

 

[Rezin]

So this guy slides into a gravel parking area slinging gravel all over your vehicle. You own a motorcycle shop.
Am I the only one wondering why he still had a windsheild in that truck when he returned?

I went that route when I was a younger, stupider me... Now, I try to be "Mr. upstanding business owner." It's hard sometimes, lol.....

 

[Lupinus]

I never went through my young stupid phase...I have the camaro and have fun with it on occasion I limit myself to that lol.

But I know all to well how much a cop loves a kid in a camaro.

 

[Adept]

From what you've told us, I think you handled the situation reasonably well.

It's hard to say how you might have handled it better without actually being in the bar with you. Things like maintaining distance, keeping your back covered and using verbal de-escalation technqiues all depend on the minute details.

 

[NineseveN]

This is one of those "fine line" situations.

I mostly agree with the way you assessed it, except, I would have had my sidearm on me. I carry it always, everywhere, even to the shower (not in the shower, but in the bathroom while I am taking one).

Not having your gun on you may have played a role in your decision to go into the bar. When I have my gun on me, again which is always, I keep it in mind for every situation. My thoughts and actions may have looked something like this:

Should I go out and ask him to move? Yes, just because I carry does not mean I have to hide in my apartment.

Asking him to move did not work. Should I go into the bar after him? Do I really want to have to shoot someone. He already expressed his opposition to courtesy, perhaps going in there where he is amongst friends is a bad idea. I'll call the police and tell them I think a drunk driver just hit my car and parked behind it. I went out to ask him, but he seemed aggravated and I did not want to escalate the issue. I could not get a good look at my car. He is driving around laying tire and throwing gravel and been doing this for a little bit now, going in and out of the bar.

Dial 9.1.1.

Watch a movie until the coppers arrive.


For the record, I live in a situation that is VERY similar to the OP's (bar next door, huge lot out back etc...). I don't want to have to draw on someone, but I won't stand for my property being threatened either. Call the cops. The only time 9.1.1. is a bad option is if the threat is immediate, then evade or slide lock. If you have to embellish, just like concerned neighbors that hear something spooky out near their homes say they think they "saw" a prowler, well, that's how you get traction sometimes. Not honest, not wrong. YMMV.

 

[KC&97TA]

Before I'd gone to Iraq I'd offer to throw down with the neighbors if they were disturbing the peace. I even had the Apartment rent a cops called on me.

After the first tour in Iraq, I hardly ever waste my breath. I've called the Police on my neighbors several times, that's what I pay taxes for right? Domestic assault has so far been the worst, 3x for the apartment up stairs and 2x for the one next door. I've actually been on the brink of kicking in a door and holding the dude next door at gun point till the police arrived.

I had a convosation with one of the police officers and he asked me if I had it in me to pull the trigger, since I was back in the land of the big PX, I told him " yes I do and I'd enjoy doing it, but that's why you're here I'm avoiding haveing to do that".

You did everything right, except you know now that it maybe better to try and video tape the crime and then call the police. That's why you pay taxes right?

 

[Devonai]

If I was just sitting around watching a movie I would have called the police. If I had somewhere to go right at that moment, I would have gone inside to ask the guy to move. Since I always carry where legal, I would have been armed. The moment the guy copped an attitude I would have gone home and called the police.

The next day I'd go find myself a couple of old rims, stick a pole in each and put up two signs on either side of my driveway that read "Do not block driveway."

 

[Cosmoline]

I'd say move. Living next to a shady bar is bad enough. Living next to a shady bar owned by your landlord is worse. It seriously reduces the leverage you might have if the bar were owned by a third party. For example, can you call the cops on your landlord's bar? Can you sue your landlord's bar? Most people don't want to anger their landlord that way.

Beyond that, having bar drunks coming and going next to your turf is bad business. They're the worst of the worst. Face it--only a complete loser gets drunk at a dive bar. They're the kind of scum you might have to put some bullets in, even if what you thought was a knife was a hairbrush. Good for the gene pool, but bad for you.

 

[rock jock]

You ever hear of, oh, you know.....the POLICE??

 

[hso]

Not bad on handling the situation, but you should have called the owner of the bar instead of going in where the drunk jackasses were know to be.

With the history of the problem you need to move if you can't find a place to park where this isn't a problem or the landlord won't put up a fence for a parking area for the apartment.

 

[clt46910]

These kind of post reminds me why I moved way out in the country....

Personally I would have only asked him to move. Following him into the bar looking for help from landlord or anyone was a mistake. IF you really wanted it to be moved, I would have called the cops and tow company. File a report of possible reckless driving by a drunk. Have the car towed.

While it is a "Whuss" feeling to have to walk away from an loudmouthed dumba$$ drunk, it was the best choice. Maturity comes with understanding it was the right choice, even though you wanted to "kick his A$$", and "Whuss" feeling that sometimes comes with it.

As far as reaching for your gun. I personally feel that was an mistake also. Not a good habit to get into in a crowded bar. If you had pulled it what would have stopped someone from shooting you? You would have been the one to pull a gun, they felt "in fear of their life" and defended themself. May have been a guy sitting at the bar minding his own business watching the argument. You pull your gun and he shoots you to stop your threat. He may have felt he was in the right to use deady force to protect others from "death or serious injury".

The one question I do have is why did you feel the need to have him move his car? Was you going anywhere or felt you might? Personally I would have not given a damn unless I was wanting to leave.

 

[Rezin]

You ever hear of, oh, you know.....the POLICE??

For example, can you call the cops on your landlord's bar?

That's about my take on it... Been here for years, it SUPER easy for my buisiness (Living next door to work rules!) and it's a nice little town. Usually it's great here. Just a few whackos here and there... This guy being one, lol.

 

[Rezin]

The one question I do have is why did you feel the need to have him move his car? Was you going anywhere or felt you might? Personally I would have not given a damn unless I was wanting to leave.

The movie was over in 30-40 mins, and I had to run out to the store......... Figured "catch em now while they are there, and they can move the truck right then and there.........."

Like I said, I've had to ask a few folks to move, and they are always polite, usually apologetic.........

 

[reality]

I think you need to learn hand to hand

fighting, so that a gun is not your only defensive move. I'd have kicked his nuts up past his ears when he tried to get in my face. If you let someone within arm's reach, he can hit you before you can do a thing about it, if he has any hand speed at all. Best lay it on him before he gets that close.