Am I missing something? Loading for a Garand.

[Slamfire]

What I want...is shooters to educated enough to know the actual data and THEN make their own decisions... Not automatically shoot/handload weak ammo just because you "say so"..


Understand?

So your knowledge is all based on books or what is inprint, and you have no experience whatsoever shooting the rifle?

I also do not consider a 175 grain bullet moving at 2650 fps , nor a 150 grain bullet moving at 2700 fps, "weak".

 

[Jeremy2171]

So your knowledge is all based on books or what is inprint, and you have no experience whatsoever shooting the rifle?

You sure do like making things up as you go don't you? What are you talking about?

 

[Slamfire]

You sure do like making things up as you go don't you? What are you talking about?

I asked you about your experience shooting the rifle, and what I get is a bunch of book values.

How many rounds of commercial ammunition have you shot in one of the things? How many NRA highpower matches have you competed in, with your commercial ammunition and your Garand? Shooters usually learn to cut their loads after their first alibi, how many alibi's have you had? What exactly is your experience?.

 

[Jeremy2171]

I asked you about your experience shooting the rifle, and what I get is a bunch of book values.

Been shooting competitively for 30+ years and working and rebuilding milsurps and garands for almost as long.

And for the record you didn't get book values. You got actual data from ammunition shot in an actual ballistics lab in a certified SAAMI test rig.


That's why I post the numbers I post. Because "I" tested them.

Commercial ammo isn't as bad as the internet and you make it out to be.

If anything you are posting "book" numbers...since none of them are yours.

 

[Slamfire]

Been shooting competitively for 30+ years and working and rebuilding milsurps and garands for almost as long.

And for the record you didn't get book values. You got actual data from ammunition shot in an actual ballistics lab in a certified SAAMI test rig.


That's why I post the numbers I post. Because "I" tested them.

Commercial ammo isn't as bad as the internet and you make it out to be.

If anything you are posting "book" numbers...since none of them are yours.

I have a wall full of Camp Perry Garand match medals, I have all the colors, and was shooting them regularly in state and local compeititions before you claim to have been in competition. Wore out one match Garand barrel in competition, in-spite of the fact I have three NM Garands to rotate.

You claim to have tested something yourself? You have a pressure barrel and a port gauge? Can you verify, or counter dict this statement?

“Permanent damage can occur while shooting standard factory loaded 30-06 ammunition in the M1 Garand,” said Dave Emary, Hornady Chief Ballistic Scientist. “Typical factory loads contain propellants that when fired, result in port pressures and gas volumes that are too high, causing violent stress to the rifle's operating rod, bolt, and receiver.”

M1 Garand Ammo: What Should You Shoot in Your M1?

This is interesting, and these guys used as a bench mark old GI ammunition.

https://www.garandgear.com/the-m1-garand-and-commercial-ammunition/

What they did not know, was whether the old ammunition they used as a bench mark, had increased in pressure. Which it does at some unknown age, and that is something apparently, you don't know that either or you have acknowledged that in your list of potential receiver cracking causes. This is a huge area of ignorance in the shooting community, basically the majority of shooters, and even many in the gun industry, believe that gunpowder is immortal, and stays pristine forever. Which it does not, gunpowder deteriorates. The exact time it goes bad is unknowable, but I sure have fired CMP Greek HP that was over pressure due to age, and I have accounts of others who have had similar overpressure experiences with lots of Greek 30-06 ball. There is nothing good or safe with old ammunition and old gunpowder.

But, you tested it? You have data similar to what Garandgear produced? Put it out there.

 

[Jeremy2171]

I have a wall full of Camp Perry Garand match medals, I have all the colors, and was shooting them regularly in state and local compeititions before you claim to have been in competition. Wore out one match Garand barrel in competition, in-spite of the fact I have three NM Garands to rotate.

Congrats... not really relevant to the discussion however.

You claim to have tested something yourself? You have a pressure barrel and a port gauge?

The ballistics lab I'm working with does...

Can you verify, or counter dict this statement?

“Permanent damage can occur while shooting standard factory loaded 30-06 ammunition in the M1 Garand,” said Dave Emary, Hornady Chief Ballistic Scientist. “Typical factory loads contain propellants that when fired, result in port pressures and gas volumes that are too high, causing violent stress to the rifle's operating rod, bolt, and receiver.”

M1 Garand Ammo: What Should You Shoot in Your M1?

Not according to our test results it doesn't...but since it's just a comment with no actual numbers presented not sure how they come to that conclusion.

This is interesting, and these guys used as a bench mark old GI ammunition.

https://www.garandgear.com/the-m1-garand-and-commercial-ammunition/

No they used "some" USGI ammo. Our test gave similar results with similar years of milsurp. However when a larger sample was tested there was plenty of milsurp that tested as high and higher than commercial ammo.

So they either tested a small sample with minimal results...OR they tested a larger sample and the results showed that their product wasn't needed. One of the two...you decide.

What they did not know, was whether the old ammunition they used as a bench mark, had increased in pressure. Which it does at some unknown age, and that is something apparently, you don't know that either or you have acknowledged that in your list of potential receiver cracking causes. This is a huge area of ignorance in the shooting community, basically the majority of shooters, and even many in the gun industry, believe that gunpowder is immortal, and stays pristine forever. Which it does not, gunpowder deteriorates. The exact time it goes bad is unknowable, but I sure have fired CMP Greek HP that was over pressure due to age, and I have accounts of others who have had similar overpressure experiences with lots of Greek 30-06 ball. There is nothing good or safe with old ammunition and old gunpowder.

Gunpowder gets weaker as it deteriorates. Not stronger. Since it's now consuming the stored chemical energy now the stabilizers are gone.

Can you provide me more information about the "over pressure" HXP? If you have any I'll be glad to test it.

But, you tested it? You have data similar to what Garandgear produced? Put it out there.

Already have.
scroll up in this post...I've shared the initial results. I'm preparing a second round of tests to verify a few numbers and expand from commercial/milsurp ammo to include some handloads with 'gas gun" powders and some with slower powder and heavy bullets. Like 4350...RL22 etc.

Final results will be out in a few months after we finish round two of testing.

But so far...we haven't tested any commercial ammo that's out of the range of milsurp ammo. I will state superformance 150/180gr is only a few percent above the highest milsurps port pressure.

People will also be surprised at how "hot" (I hate that term btw) that PPU and S&B garand loads are.


Questions?

 

[243winxb]

WC852 is basically H380

H380 is a powder i think, needs a magnum primer? Had an issure with its slower cousin, H450 (discontinued) , using CCI mag primers.

 

[Jeremy2171]

H380 is a powder i think, needs a magnum primer? Had an issure with its slower cousin, H450 (discontinued) , using CCI mag primers.

I haven't had any issues with it...but colder weather I'd go magnum