Am I missing something... Why are AR rifles so expensive?

[RockyMtnTactical]

When you consider what you might pay for a SCAR or an ACR or a G3, the AR15 is a bargain.

 

[Z-Michigan]

It seems some here are using the logic that a car is only $1500 worth of steel, so it shouldn't cost a dime more than $2000, tops.

It is entirely legal to build your own semi-auto AR15, either from manufactured parts or from raw steel and aluminum ingots. Go ahead and try it, knock yourself out. When you make one that's the same quality and specification as a S&W or CMMG that you would happily sell for $250, let us know. Don't forget the costs of your 07 FFL, the excise tax if you're going to sell complete rifles, and some bare minimum overhead and insurance costs.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Actually, the AR15 is priced very well. There are no more patents on it so anyone can make it and that has kept the price down quite a bit. In order for companies to compete with each other, they have to price it where they do.

What is the cost of building one SCAR vs. an AR15? Not much. Yet, there is a substantial price difference.

 

[Shear_stress]

The intent of the post was to ascertain exactly why the going price for a mid level rifle made of standardized parts was around $700-$900. Deviate from the standard .223 chambering and its more like $1000.

So far the answers seems to be a combination of trends in the publics taste in guns and fear of governmental policy change coupled with high demand. It has nothing to do with the realistic costs of the rifle.

and then there are those who think is sacrilege that someone would question why an entry level gun composed of maybe $250 worth of parts that come disassembled demands a $600 price tag.

There are about 35 companies manufacturing (or just reselling) AR rifles right now. I would think that as demand wanes prices will continue to fall to more realistic entry points of around $400-450 for a basic 16in carbine in 223.

Nothing to do with the realistic cost of the rifle? You haven't been reading this thread closely. Your statements remind me of a cute adage I heard recently: "anything's possible if you don't know what you're talking about." So, either cite a source for that $250 figure or at least let us know when your profitable $400 AR is coming out so you can prove everyone else wrong.

All this bitching and moaning is ironic at a time when quality ARs are probably the cheapest they have ever been. Sheesh.

 

[wally]

The intent of the post was to ascertain exactly why the going price for a mid level rifle made of standardized parts was around $700-$900. Deviate from the standard .223 chambering and its more like $1000.

Maybe with a bolt action changing calibers is trivial, but for an autoloader there are a lot of dynamical issues in play that need to be addressed with engineering and testing. Change the cartridge enough to need a new mag and there is another thing you need to make further increasing your costs before you even sell a gun.

In addition to 5.56, I've AR uppers in .22lr, 9mm, .40S&W, 7.62x25, 5.45x39, 7.62x39, & 5.7x28.

The 5.7x28 really is nothing like an AR, but uses the AR lower to greatly reduce the effort in designing the gun. I consider them all to have been reasonably priced. The 9mm, .40S&W, 7.63x25 & 5.7x28 were facilitated by designing around using existing mags.

 

[ugaarguy]

There are about 35 companies manufacturing (or just reselling) AR rifles right now. I would think that as demand wanes prices will continue to fall to more realistic entry points of around $400-450 for a basic 16in carbine in 223.

How the heck is that realistic? You honestly think that a semi-automatic rifle made from a forged aluminum upper & lower receiver, with a rotating bolt breech lock mechanism should cost LESS than an injection molded polymer frame semi auto service pistol which operates off the MUCH simpler tilt breech locking principle? You think that same rifle should cost less than a comparably simple to manufacture bolt action hunting rifle, with even less metal in the receiver?

and then there are those who think is sacrilege that someone would question why an entry level gun composed of maybe $250 worth of parts that come disassembled demands a $600 price tag.

Do you have ANY clue how many parts are in an AR-15? Have you thought about how many small precision forged and milled parts go into making one? Most AR-15s will shoot 2 MOA or better out of the box. Add a $70 for a free float hand guard and you can get 1.5 MOA or better. How much will you pay for a bolt action rifle that shoots 1.5 MOA or better?

 

[atomd]

Uhh....a polymer-framed pistol from one of the more popular companies is generally $450-$600. Some are even up to $900+. Glocks in a lot of shops are priced at $550. You could get a brand new S&W AR for $50 more than a Glock after rebate. An AR has a heck of a lot more material in it and it really doesn't cost much more at all. Granted, if you want the top of the line it's gonna cost you a lot more than that....but that goes for anything. I think the AR is a pretty good deal overall.

 

[lathedog]

There are a couple trend lines converging on the AR-15 price point. Cost of metals, cost of energy, and reduction in value of the dollar. Look at any other stuff you buy and compare prices to 10 or 20 years ago.

The 5.56 AR-15 benefits from mass production, lack of patents or licensing on the basic design, over-run of many parts for military/police/securty contracts, and competition between maufacturers.

The way to get an AR type rifle to sell cheaper is to reduce machining steps, make the gun simpler. The current standard AR-15 has few stamped parts, and many parts are more complex than maybe they need to be due to aesthetic reasons (the same competition that drives price down also drives an aesthetic factor to get the buying public's attention).

There will always be a problem with getting cost down on a rifle with a high pressure cartridge and the need to have accepatable accuracy. The more a manufacturer gets off the "template", the more people will think twice about buying a rifle that has unique parts, possible issues with using standard accessories, etc.

 

[Golden_006]

Quote:
$600 is pretty big purchase for me anyway to take a chance on some fly by night manufacturer.

Yep, S&W must be a fly by night manufacturer they only been around a hundred years or so.

Smith & Wesson makes one, but it's for double to triple the amount quoted on this thread. Ruger makes one too now and it's for over 2x the cost of a Mini.





http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...85&categoryId=757785&identifier=1283130828437

 

[Casefull]

Look at what the military pays for m4s. They are not cheap even when bid on a large volume base. I am sure the bids are for more than the rifles but not as cheap as one might think.

 

[SSN Vet]

Price is relative to what the item can do for you.

When gas hit $4/gal, I heard a logger go on about how cheap gas was.... meaning that four measly dollars could cut several cords of wood, and save him days and days of labor.

I'll bet ya if you were an ethnic Tutsi guest at the hotel Rowanda on the wrong day, you'd pay much, much more than $1,000 for a straight shooting AR with a case of ammo.

 

[ugaarguy]

Smith & Wesson makes one, but it's for double to triple the amount quoted on this thread. Ruger makes one too now and it's for over 2x the cost of a Mini.

You're looking at MSRP, not street price. Street price on S&W base models is in the high $600s to low $700s - BEFORE the $100 mail in rebate. Street price on standard Glocks is $475 to $550. Again, do you really think an AR-15 is that expensive any more?

As for your Mini-14 comparison, all but the absolute cheapest AR-15s have better, higher quality barrels than Mini-14s. The DAR-15s DGI operation, versus the HEAVY M-14 based op-rod on the Mini-14 contributes heavily to the AR-15s greater accuracy. Add in the complexity to build an AR-15 versus a Mini-14, and AR-15s are looking pretty economical. I could give a rat's rear end if the gun has wood or plastic furniture if it works, and is accurate. If you must have wood though - http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=393

 

[scythefwd]

"I'd guess closer to 100K for the mold. there are cross pins, and pick-outs required, and you'd want a steel tool for longevity.
__________________"

I used to work with a guy who would have molds made. Simpler for the most part, but they would run him 10k. Your 100k might be right on, but that still only 20 a lower and upper instead of 150 and 300.

 

[Virg461]

I'm constantly amazed by folks that don't understand supply and demand. Simple economic theory. Everything costs exactly what the market will bear. No more, no less. Charge too much, no one will buy or a competitor will undercut you. If you sell out of an item, you didn't charge enough.

This is true of automobiles, DVD players, or AR-15's.

Want a real deal? Buy a milsurp. A Swiss K-31 would cost a lot more than the $200 they go for today to manufacture, but the craftsmen that built them are all probably dead by now, so production costs don't figure into the equation. MOA accuracy for $200? Yes please......for $1K I can buy five and arm all my friends.

 

[FX]

to know the price of an AR15 in Europe should help you to accept your prices...

 

[killchain]

Actually, the AR15 is priced very well. There are no more patents on it so anyone can make it and that has kept the price down quite a bit. In order for companies to compete with each other, they have to price it where they do.

What is the cost of building one SCAR vs. an AR15? Not much. Yet, there is a substantial price difference.

That's because Modern Warfare 2 kids want to buy that SCAR.

The Army doesn't, though.

*hides a snicker*

 

[scythefwd]

caseful ... Most companies up they cost when they bid on military contracts. I know some program directors that would up the cost 10-20% over estimated costs or current costs (in the case of a contract renewal) just because it was a gov contract. The military pays inflated prices for just about everything. Last I saw, they were paying almost 2k for dell PC's that were only worth about 1.5k in the civilian world. Basing a reasonable cost off of what the military pays isn't a great idea.

 

[DustyVermonter]

The prices really aren't that bad as far as AR-15's go. Hell, if you can find a decent bull whip for under a grand you'd be in good shape.

You might want to consider a slingshot, they are about 10 dollars, but I will warn you they only cost about 73 cents to manufacture so you're gonna get hosed for that other $9.27, but its a sound investment......j/k

Seriously man, there are a lot of reasons that we should feel glad that AR's are the prices they are and can even be had at this day and age with all that's going on. Ammo was getting a little out of hand but its seems to be staying tolerable for the moment.

There are plenty of people in Jamaica that would gladly trade you their families for an AR-15(just to put it into perspective), I don't even want to think of what they would do for a Glock....lol

I don't mind paying those prices as long as everyone else has to pay them, I'm just glad I don't live in a country where I have to cob together a makeshift zip-gun that I could only illegally obtain 4 .22 cal bullets for to rely on for protection.

 

[DustyVermonter]

$700 for the tool doesn't bother me, but spending $200 to shoot it for a half hour does.

 

[Golden_006]

Again, do you really think an AR-15 is that expensive any more?

No not really. Although you'd have a hard time getting one around here for that. went to GB and that is in fact the price. Went to gun shows in FLA on vacation and they were still a lot more than that. 700 for Smith and Wesson sounds very reasonable to me. Too bad I can't have one

PS - wood stock ARs pictured look ugly as sin, and Ruger Mini looks like a beauty queen relatively speaking.

PPS - does having the semi-auto police one really prove anything however? I find conflicting info about the civilian one being the same gun as the m16 fully auto on account of ATF not wanting you to easily convert it

 

[benEzra]

PPS - does having the semi-auto police one really prove anything however? I find conflicting info about the civilian one being the same gun as the m16 fully auto on account of ATF not wanting you to easily convert it

Post-1986 civilian AR-15's have sufficient differences in FCG and receiver dimensions from M16's to make them difficult to convert to full auto, yes. That doesn't mean that an AR-15 is any cheaper to built than a full auto (assuming no corners are cut in materials or build quality), any more than a DOHC V8 engine with 100mm bore spacing is any cheaper to manufacture than a DOHC V8 made of the same grade of parts with 95mm bore spacing.

Civilian AR's and M16's have roughly the same number of parts, require the same level of equipment and time to manufacture, and are both more complicated than a bolt-action.

 

[ugaarguy]

PS - wood stock ARs pictured look ugly as sin, and Ruger Mini looks like a beauty queen relatively speaking.

I couldn't agree more. You just seemed like a wood & blued (or even parked/anodized) metal kinda guy from your posts. Of course, as in the case of an AR with wood stocks, just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be.

If you can't have one because of the state where you live, S&W does make ban state compliant models with fixed stocks, no flash hider, no bayonet lug, and ships them with a pair of ten round mags. In the 16" M4 style the model is M&P15FT as opposed to M&P15T. PM me if you want contact info for a dealer in GA who may still have some that were accidentally ordered, and probably need to be unloaded.

 

[TonyAngel]

Geez, this thread has grown and it's turning into a lesson in economics.

For what it's worth, if you want to save money on an AR, go to Bravo Company and buy bulk. I think you can get uppers for around $50 each, if you buy 50 of them. Buy enough parts to build 50 of them and I'm sure that you could have your low cost AR. What I'd like to see though is how much the other 49 would sell for. Certainly not for the cost of the parts. There's your time putting them together. The cost of the manufacturers license. Occupational license. Insurance. The cost of storing the finished product. And of course, a mark up in the cost of the parts to repay you for your money having been tied up while you were building/selling the rifles.

Personally, I spend as much as it takes to get what I want. I built this not too long ago. Nothing special, but I wanted something super accurate. I have $2100 in the barrel, trigger, stock and scope (not including the mount).


I don't think I paid too much. Really, this thread could be entitled "Why do SCARS cost so much" or "Why do Microtechs cost so much." Not trying to be a smart ass, I just don't see why it's so hard to see the AR for what it is. It's a helluva rifle and is usually priced accordingly. Personally, I wouldn't buy a $450 AR because I'd figure that corners had to have been cut somewhere to come in at that price.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Because they have more ity bitty parts than a computer...

 

[Sky]

Good thread