Am I the only one? Fixed sights and red dot

[1911 guy]

I'm sure I'm not the only one, but it seems like it, from what I have read online and seen at the local range.

I've got several AR rifles, all set up for different purposes. Varmint gun has a 20 barrel, no irons and a decent scope. Range plinker has irons only, carry handle in fact.

But then there's my "go-to" rifle. The big debate is 1/3 or absolute co-witness (I prefer absolute) and what brand of BUIS to use. These are invariably the flip up type. That's where I go a little sideways from everybody else. I use a fixed A2 rear sight mounted on the rail with my RDS directly in front of it.

My thought process is that sight picture never changes. Look through the rear sight, if the dot is there, fine. If not because of battery failure or whatever, no harm no foul.

While i do have a lot of trigger time on the M16 (courtesy of our rich Uncle Sam) and my personal rifles, all my time until recently has been spent on strictly irons or magnified optics.

Is there a reason I shouldn't have my rifle set up this way?

 

[MachIVshooter]

Well, it kinda defeats the purpose of the RDS, which is faster target acquisition via a single plane sight.

But if it works for you.............

 

[MrCleanOK]

My favorite setup from my time in service was an M4 with Aimpoint Comp M4s and a Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight. You're not alone, but we definitely aren't in the majority.

 

[Zach S]

I run an EOTech 552 and a fixed A1 BUIS in absolute cowitness.

The EOTech is a good sight, but will fail before an Aimpoint since it isn't made out of recycled tanks, and I have to remember to turn the EOTech on. If I forget, no big deal, my BUIS are already standing.

I found the the FSB distracting with the lower 1/3 (and flip up rear). My 9mm, which gets shot the most, has irons only, so I guess I would try to focus on the front sight out of habit. Now, in absolute cowitness, the sight picture I am used to is enhanced by that 1min dot and 65 min ring.

Works for me, on the rare occasion I can shoot my 5.56 anyway...

 

[strambo]

If you are actually looking through the irons then the RDS is a waste of money, just get tritium irons for low light and pocket the difference.

The main benefit to a RDS is faster sight acquisition especially from awkward positions and not needing a perfect cheek weld.

I see no issue with a fixed rear, but at least have it set on the large ghost ring and ignore it to make use of the RDS.

My BUIS fold, but I leave the rear down and the front one up. If the dot goes down a 6 O'clock hold with the always present front post will work for close quarters shots.

 

[MistWolf]

I use a fixed A2 rear sight mounted on the rail with my RDS directly in front of it

The short answer is, it doesn't matter two fiqs how everyone else is doing it if it doesn't work for you. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Each method has it's compromises. If you're not sure this method is best for you or not, go shoot the rifle until you are

 

[Dr.Zubrato]

I agree with you, dude.
I ran irons for the past year so I didnt rely too much on my RDS.

My go to has a RDS, with a fixed front sight post and folding rear sight in the UP position. Once I grab it, I know it's GTG. If I have the presence of mind to turn on my RDS, then I fold down my irons. Once the RDS goes off, or I put it away, Irons come back up.

Freaking LOVE carry handle uppers, man. Would love to rock tritium FSP, and ghost ring from XS.

As for everyone who thinks its a waste of a red dot, you'd be suprised how much the brain is able to ignore.
Example: have you ever been at a park with a fountain, and you realize after 15 mins realize you don't hear the water anymore? It's still there, and you didn't notice it, until you thought about it.

OP is running a great setup, absolute co witness, fixed FSP and fixed rear sight with a RDS in the mix.
Personally I prefer the Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight, so I dont fudge with the zero.

Thumbs up!

 

[nastynatesfish]

My set up on left. I also have one with a comp m4 and a set of fab defense sights. I like the flip ups. Even my scoped Ar has a flip up rear just in case. My range gun has just flip ups

 

[sappyg]

I don't think it matters whether one uses a lower 1/3 or an absolute co witness RDS. Mine is set up with lower 1/3 co-witness and usually the rear sight is folded when the RDS is in use. I don't know why. Mostly I don't even bother with the RDS at all and it's easy enough to mount if I want to use it. Currently it's on a rifle that's waiting for a rear sight.

That A2 RDS set up sounds like it works fine to me as long as you're getting hits on target.

 

[jmr40]

Is there a reason I shouldn't have my rifle set up this way?

I've taken all my dot sights off and either sold them, or have them for sale. I find a low powered scope with 1X on the low end does EVERYTHING better than either irons or dots. I use 1-4X20 Leupolds in QD mounts with flip up irons under them. The irons are probably a waste of time as I've had more iron sights fail than quality scopes. On 1X they are faster than irons or dots, on 4X offer all the magnification I need and are FAR, FAR better in low light. In low light you can see the dot, but the target is washed out or impossible to see with the poor optics on most dots.

 

[Zerodefect]

Chop the carry handle so that the rear sight and reddot fit on the reciever rail. Keep your optic off the hand rails.

 

[IndianaBoy]

Using a red dot by looking through a rear sight aperture removes many of the advantages of using a red dot sight.

Larger field of view, less restrictive head positioning, etc....


There is very little to be gained by pairing fixed iron sights with a quality red dot sight.



But if it works for you, carry on.

 

[Inebriated]

Why have the red dot if you're still consciously lining up the sights?

I use fixed sights and a lower-1/3 mount, so I look over the sights, and even if it were an absolute cowitness, I would till be using a target focus and seeing the dot, not the sights. But if you're taking the time to line up the sights, just take the dot off, you're not getting any favors from it.

 

[rbernie]

I'm sure I'm not the only one

You are not - you have described how my social uses AR's are set up.

Well, it kinda defeats the purpose of the RDS, which is faster target acquisition via a single plane sight.

My experience is that this is not necessarily the case. The red dot (when set up with an absolute co-witness) provides a single sight plane, and if I shoulder the weapon consistently the red dot is centered in the out-of-focus rear peep. If the RDS goes down, then and only then do I see the front sight itself.

This approach also allows the removal and re-zero of the RDS; just align it with the front sight post and you're ready to go.

 

[earplug]

Your eyes verses my eyes

Various levels of eyesight and the ability to pick up o a target and the front sight
I like optics.

 

[anothernewb]

my red dot is also absolute co witness

 

[Skylerbone]

I use an absolute co-witness with a fixed rear, A2 front, large aperture but only because the rifle came with the rear sight and I've not gotten around to purchasing a folding rear. Always meant to try a lower 1/3 as well. Someday.

 

[chicharrones]

Am I the only one? Fixed sights and red dot

That's the way my AR is currently set up. I prefer lower 1/3 co-witness, though. A 7mm difference in head position between looking through the sights or looking over the sights.

 

[1911 guy]

Thanks for the input, guys. I do use the large (0-200 M) aperture normally. I figure using a known 2 MOA dot for holdover will be just as accurate as flipping down to the 300 meter aperture. After all, it's only about 1/2 the diameter of the dot from 200 to 300. And I'm not likely to need to shoot past 300 anytime soon with a carbine.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

I am an old grunt from the early 70s....qualified on M16s and M14s at 600 yards. got the job done too and in combat ruined a few peoples days at that range too...depends on how well you can shoot

 

[strambo]

I've taken all my dot sights off and either sold them, or have them for sale. I find a low powered scope with 1X on the low end does EVERYTHING better than either irons or dots. I use 1-4X20 Leupolds in QD mounts with flip up irons under them. The irons are probably a waste of time as I've had more iron sights fail than quality scopes. On 1X they are faster than irons or dots, on 4X offer all the magnification I need and are FAR, FAR better in low light. In low light you can see the dot, but the target is washed out or impossible to see with the poor optics on most dots.

What kind of dots were you using that you couldn't see the target due to "poor optics?" If they cost as much as a Leupold 1-4x in a QD mount, this shouldn't be an issue. At my last carbine course, I finally turned the RDS off in low light because it was so easy, it was like the low light made no difference. So I shot the rest of the COF with just irons and my light for the training value. Not difficult, but the RDS was like cheating.

Again, the RDS really shines (ha) not on the range with a proper cheek weld, but in a dynamic lowlight gunfight from awkward positions. In my home, I would get the kids in the master bedroom then take up a position dominating the top of the stairs which would be kneeling and leaning out around left side cover. Easy with a dot, hard to get and maintain a perfect cheek weld that way. I could lower my profile further by putting my elbows on the deck in a kneeling to rollover prone type position.

As they rounded the corner on the U shaped stairwell, they would have a half second to spot my muzzle and the small part of my head from my right eye to the right edge, down on the floor.

 

[Inebriated]

Never had a problem in low light with an Aimpoint.