Iron Sights

[henschman]

I used to love the regular peep sights back when my experience was limited to nice black on white paper targets and steel silhouettes at the range in broad daylight. After having to use them in some low light situations, and shooting at targets that move and blend with the surroundings, I stopped liking them.

I think notch sights like the AK's are preferable for a fighting rifle, if you must use irons... but optics are far and away better than any sort of irons. Red dots are fantastic for speed up close, like where most field shooting is done, and the good ones are parallax-free and very forgiving of awkward, less-than-perfect positions that are frequently required.

For more precision/longer range applications, magnified optics provide much greater target detection capability than irons. They are also faster, due to not having to worry about sight alignment.

Of course no optic makes you or your rifle any more accurate... but they can help you detect your target and get a hit quicker.

If you like irons for nostalgic reasons or for the challenge, that is fine. I enjoy shooting irons frequently myself. But don't pretend that there isn't a performance advantage to optics. Some actual field shooting, or some work with a shot timer, will disabuse you of those notions quickly.

 

[Welding Rod]

Specially in low light.

 

[bhk]

I love both types of sights. Aperture sights (especially both front and rear apertures) can be extremely accurate for shooting bullseye targets. I was watching a number of 600-yard shooters Saturday using apertures, and have noted in the past that there is much overlap in the scores of peep shooters and scope shooters in such matches. I often shoot a vintage Springfield M2 .22 target rifle (essentially a 1903 chambered in .22) with double peeps and can regularly shoot .5 inch groups at 50 yards with it. A nice thing about the double peeps it that you only have to focus on the target and not the sights themselves. Actually this is the case for a single peep setups also, although I will admit that a front post on a short barrel can be problematic for those of us with older eyes.

That said, game animals are not black and round. I find a scope a real advantage for hunting in many hunting situations, especially in low light. I usually start each deer season with a scoped bolt rifle, get a deer or two, and then move to a peeped lever action. Much more fun and satisfying. Also, many shooters trained with peep sights find they can shoot at a running game animal MUCH faster with a ghost ring rear sight than they can with a scope.

In addition, my main squirrel rifles are scoped, but my most fun small-game and plinking .22 rifles have either receiver or tang mounted peeps.

 

[JO JO]

nice to see I am not alone on iron sights and for longer range I agree on the scope,
what I have noticed almost every time at the range the guys with the tricked out show
boat AR always seem to have trouble with there rifles , my AR has A2 type irons and
I seem to hitting my targets trouble free while they seem to be adjusting and adjusting
just doesn't seem like a functional field worthy rifle with all that stuff on them ?
I am happy with irons on my AR and Scope on my bolt gun

 

[Inebriated]

what I have noticed almost every time at the range the guys with the tricked out show
boat AR always seem to have trouble with there rifles , my AR has A2 type irons and
I seem to hitting my targets trouble free while they seem to be adjusting and adjusting
just doesn't seem like a functional field worthy rifle with all that stuff on them ?

It never occurred that you may be encountering people that are going to the range with the sole purpose of zeroing their optics?

 

[Cee Zee]

I wouldn't have a standard for day to driving, only a hotrod.

So you do understand that in some situations a standard is just more fun. I don't have a standard for my everyday driver now either but I've had many of them. There are a lot of things you can do with a standard than an auto won't do. Same goes for iron sights as opposed to a scope. It doesn't make one or the other better for all situations. Just for particular situations. If I was driving in a car race I'd want a standard although some of the new autos pretty much drive like standards. My sister in law has 2 Corvettes and both have standards. If you're going all out for a go fast car the rule has been get a standard for a long time. That's changing just like holographic sights etc. are making irons less important than they were before. But there are still times I want iron sights and I practice with them so I don't forget how to use them. For one thing most pistols don't take mounted sights. They only have irons. I'd hate to give up my Sig P220 because I can't put a holographic sight on it. I do have some handguns that will take scopes etc. but to me they are cumbersome for that type of gun.

 

[blindhari]

The last time I used a scope was for the Army in 1968. Since then I have used GI Aperture sights. As my eyes get older, I have limited my shooting until now I am down to 100yds. I do admit to having my front post thinned to my specification and using a ghost ring for rear aperture. I have given up chasing deer and elk at 7000'but still enjoy varmiting out to my max range. (My max range is 100yds from where I am sitting) Coyote at that range still falls to a 10/22, a 357 mag Winchester Trapper, a 223, or even a S&W 17-4 with an 8" barrel.

blindhari

 

[Ash]

I prefer irons. I also drive a stick. As usual, folks will declare just how inferior that is.

 

[Jackal]

I prefer irons because I'm a klutz. I'd rather drop a rifle with a set of $100 sights than a rifle with a $500 optic.

 

[DMK]

I prefer optics to irons, but I practice and keep proficient with both.

I was at the range last year sighting in my deer rifle. Guy pulls up next to me with a beautiful AR rig. After setting up and the discussing all the features with the rangemaster, it turned out the batteries were dead on the optics package. No spare batteries. No backup sites. He packed up and went for home.

No such problem with iron sites. Seems like backup sites are a good idea on an AR.

Same thing happened to me at my last range session. Except it didn't ruin my day. I have spare batteries stored in a pouch on my sling. That didn't fix it though, the optic had another problem. So I flipped up my iron sights and carried on with the shooting.

I don't like having an optic on a gun without backup sights. You need a plan B when plan A fails.

 

[dvdcrr]

Only thing with irons is you do lose about 30 min per day due to low light. Good scopes like 95% on up transmission give you a better sight picture in very low light.

 

[CraigC]

I own and use plenty of optics but prefer irons.

I can't focus on the front and back sight and the target at the same time and it bothers me.

No one can and you're not supposed to try. Focus on the front sight. An aperture lets you forget the rear.

But a decent scope simply does EVERYTHING better and will cost less than QUALITY irons.

A decent scope costs less than an $80 Lyman or Williams receiver sight???

 

[Cee Zee]

Only thing with irons is you do lose about 30 min per day due to low light. Good scopes like 95% on up transmission give you a better sight picture in very low light.

The best setup I have is something I haven't been able to replicate for 20 years. Long ago I bought a laser designed to be mounted on a dovetail. It sat up high so you could see the irons underneath the laser. That setup gives me all sorts of options including shooting in very low light as long as I know what my target is and what else might be around like for example if a flash of lightning lit up the area for half a second to show me there wasn't anything I didn't want to shoot and verify the location of what I did want to shoot. And if I could still make out the target after that it's toast with that laser mounted. But mostly it gives me the ability to shoot until light is almost gone. Scopes can certainly give you a better view of things in low light but the time that is true during a day is much more limited than the time I can use a laser to give me the ability to shoot when I otherwise couldn't.

I've kept that laser mounted on a Marlin 60 for about 15 years now. I took it off and put it back on and back and forth for a good while then settled on keeping it there because the adjustment screws on the laser were getting hard to deal with. But I can find new lasers for the mount. What I can't find now is another mount like that. I wish I could. I have other .22's that I use most of the time but if I have a situation where I really need to nail a varmint I'll be using my old Marlin 60 with that laser sight. You'd be surprised how effective the thing can be with a little practice. Hitting a moving target is easy and you can do it shooting from the hip if you want. I wouldn't take that mount off now for any reason. It's going to be on that rifle as long as I own it and I've already had it for a bunch of years (about 26 years now). The rifle still shoots accurate and it's reliable. It's a very effective tool against the varmints that roam the woods around my yard at night. I have actually rarely had to use it but if I do it's ready. It's one of the few guns I keep in the house but not in the safe. I want it to be ready for use. It's not like I'd lose a lot if it was stolen also.

Here's a photo of that setup. Notice the modifications I've made (hillbilly style). Hey it works and that's all that matters. I added a bolt to put more pressure on the dovetail. I replaced the adjustment screws with bigger screws (it used to have tiny recessed screws with Allen heads). I've done some work on the Marlin too. I had to replace the stock because my kids put a gash in it about half an inch deep and 5 inches long somehow. My boy is 31 now and he still won't tell me how he did it. And no I never let him play with a loaded gun. It was never kept loaded in those days. In fact I didn't have any ammo for it in the house at the time my kids were young. It looks like crap but it does a great job. The scratches on the mount are from the vise I used to hold it still when I put it in the drill press. It's odd shaped and didn't hold real well. The laser still holds a perfect zero for years at a time. And it was a $20 laser designed to be used on a BB gun at that.

 

[captain awesome]

Quote:
I can't focus on the front and back sight and the target at the same time and it bothers me.

No one can and you're not supposed to try. Focus on the front sight. An aperture lets you forget the rear.

I know. I don't try, figured that out in my youth spending all my free time with a daisy BB gun, shooting everything in sight that I thought I wouldn't get in trouble for. I even shot a few things I wasn't supposed to (my backside was black and blue when my dad saw what I did to the thermometer gauge on his smoker. It was a dang good shot though, nailed it dead center from across the yard which only hurt my case when I pointed that out). It doesn't change the fact that it bothers me seeing a blurry rear sight and a blurry target when using a rifle. Like I said I am fully capable with them, as I own many handguns devoid of optics, and still have a couple rifles with irons, I just prefer it all to be crystal clear

 

[Manny]

I've worn glasses since I was 8, have 20/200 vision these days, wear progressive lenses and can't focus worth a damn on the front sight like you need to wearing my everyday glasses. I LOVE optics, both magnified and non-magnified because they allow me to see clearly and shoot accurately, something I can't do well with iron sights these days and have been struggling increasingly to do as I age. For me, lower powered and non-magnified optics are a Godsend that I am very, very thankful for.

 

[Cee Zee]

Manny, just curious about whether your good eye is your shooting eye? I mean if you're right handed and not cross dominant is your right eye the one that has the 20 vision? Because if it is you should be able to see OK if you just close your off eye. I don't know if you've tried that or not. Just a suggestion. But if a person shoots the right way they are only using the one eye except to get depth perception and peripheral vision. Lots of people close their off eye to shoot because they have trouble concentrating on the sights if they have both eyes open. That isn't the best way to shoot but it works and I suppose it might be considered the best way for some people.

 

[Manny]

Manny, just curious about whether your good eye is your shooting eye? I mean if you're right handed and not cross dominant is your right eye the one that has the 20 vision? Because if it is you should be able to see OK if you just close your off eye. I don't know if you've tried that or not. Just a suggestion. But if a person shoots the right way they are only using the one eye except to get depth perception and peripheral vision. Lots of people close their off eye to shoot because they have trouble concentrating on the sights if they have both eyes open. That isn't the best way to shoot but it works and I suppose it might be considered the best way for some people.

Vision in both eyes is relatively equally poor, forgive me if the 20/200 was inaccurate. My understanding is that doesn't refer to right/left vision but how well one sees at a distance. When I asked the doc what my vision was IIRC he said 20/200 unless I misunderstood. When I asked how that was in comparison to normal vision he said that without my glasses I'd be effectively legally blind.

 

[Berserker]

So you do understand that in some situations a standard is just more fun. I don't have a standard for my everyday driver now either but I've had many of them.

I have more then one rifle.

 

[Danny Creasy]

A scope can be pretty fast – even on a bolt gun, from 25 yards, and set at 10X:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/128992557@N06/15447848777/

 

[Frostbite]

I like to use both, but I must confess I have a preference for irons when shooting targets at the range. For hunting, I prefer irons for stalking and scope for treestand. Fiber optic sights almost negate the poor light conditions advantage of a scope in NY state (sun up to sun down only), where I also have the privilege to hunt. In Quebec, a scope is a real advantage: we are allowed to hunt half an hour before and half an hour after the sun is up or down. I generally feel irons are more reliable and quicker to put on a rapidly moving target while a scope makes long shots easier.

 

[Cee Zee]

My understanding is that doesn't refer to right/left vision but how well one sees at a distance.

You're right. I was mis-remembering things again. It's funny how you forget things when you get old. You might be right in the middle of a sentence and forget what you're it's funny how you forget things when you get old.

20-200 is pretty rough. I had serious vision issues when I first became diabetic. It's no fun. In my youth I had 20-15 vision but that's been many years ago now. I wish I had it back.

 

[GAMEOVER44]

I LOVE my New England custom guns Masterpiece front and rear sites with optional big dot up front. Probably among the best on the market but NOTHING will beat a good scope that has good eye relief!

 

[mavracer]

Wouldn't want a scope on my lever guns and wouldn't do without on my heavy barreled 300 win mag.
Love shooting my A2 service match rifle but also love shooting my Recce with a 16" White Oak match barrel and it's 3-9x scope.
Garand = no scope
308 AR = 2-16x

 

[ColonelKorn]

When I could wear contacts iron sights were adequate. Now that it's glassses only, I would be better served with a laser, because I can't do jack with scope or irons now.

 

[Tirod]

They make bifocals to focus on a front sight for shooting - the corrective part is the upper half of the lens. And you can get them in quite a few styles.

Try Tactical RX out of Denver, they were mentioned recently on a blog and seem to have good options and prices.