Am I too anal about the 4 rules?

[TheLastBoyScout]

I am somewhat obsessive about safe gun handling, in particular its people pointing guns at me that gets me really aggravated, regardless of the circumstance... Here's a few examples that caused my dad to think I was overreacting:

1. At the gunstore... When I'm at the counter checking out a rifle, there is another man about 3 meters to my right checking a 1911. He sweeps about half the store several times. This is really getting on my nerves, but when I point it out to my dad he's says "its no big deal because the clerk is right there"

2. Whenever handed a weapon, particularly when I'm getting it from my younger brother or his friend (cause I want to make sure they get good habits), I refuse to take it until whoever has the gun presents it cleared with the safety on.

3. My grandmother finds a pair of crappy .32 cal revolvers and gives them to my dad... he shows them to my brother, and I walk in to the room to see my brother and his friend dryfiring them at anything, everything and each other. My first response is "WHAT THE ???? IS THIS?!". My dad walks in and tells me to "take it easy, we don't even have ammo that would fit in them".

 

[Camel]

Nope. Cant be too anal about the 4 rules.

Same thing with some folks I know. Assembled an over-under shotgun, handed it off, turned around to pick up the box, turned back and had a shotgun in my face. Reacted as you did. I got the classic "It isnt even loaded" response. Just ask them to ponder this. When was the last time anyone was accidently shot with a "loaded" gun?

 

[Thumper]

people pointing guns at me that gets me really aggravated, regardless of the circumstance

Regardless of circumstance? Interesting...do you ever carry a gun yourself?

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

not yet... I'm only 16.

 

[Ian]

Darn hard to be TOO anal about the Four Rules.

 

[Thumper]

Well, will you?

Do you object to others carrying?

If not, then you're not too anal...I've got two big boxes full of holsters; not a single one of them positions a handgun in such a way that it never points at me or someone else.

Ever cleaned a Glock? If you took it down, you violated a rule, right?

Ever hunted? Rarely have I taken a shot at game (aside from a stand) where I was absolutely, 100% sure that there wasn't something valuable within two miles of my direction of fire.

The four rules are great guidelines, but I'd be careful about "regardless of circumstance."

 

[Brian Dale]

Nope.

From what you wrote,

in particular, it's people pointing guns at me that gets me really aggravated, regardless of the circumstance...

it sounds like you mean it's when they're holding them (rather than being upset by gun orientation in a holster). I agree that hunting takes judgment calls.

Camel, Ian and Thumper beat me to it, but that's fine: being strict about good habits is one way to live. Being sloppy and developing bad habits is another. "It isn't loaded anyway" is exactly the reason that the most common phrasing of Rule #1 is, "All guns are always loaded." You can't save the world, but you can ensure that those good habits become ingrained in your own behavior.

"There's no ammo for this weapon nearby." Is that a reason to teach my hands that it's sometimes OK to cover somebody with a muzzle by practicing it? Not at my house. If you're too anal, you're in good company: Jeff Cooper, most of the members at THR, and a lot more people are the same way.

You might be able to reach your family members about this, or you might just need to bite your tongue until you're out on your own. Until then, NEVER be too polite to get the hell out of the way if something's pointed at you. In any case, my view is that you're not overreacting.

 

[P95Carry]

Hmmm ... well if we apply said four rules when firearm is ''in the hand'' then I don't think one can be too anal really.

Simple fact is .... as we hear stories about here ...... it only takes a second's lapse of concentration and discipline to allow for a tragedy. Infinitely better IMO to be a tad paranoid than sloopy ...... many people who screw up thru laxity do not get a second chance.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Am I too anal about the 4 rules?

Nope. I'd say you're surrounded by people who aren't paying anywhere near enough attention to the fundamentals.

 

[Thumper]

Nah...just don't be TOO literal.

Again, if we all kept our fingers off our triggers until ready to shoot, the world would be full of uncleaned Glocks...

 

[jsalcedo]

I've become very sensitive to people pointing guns at me.

It is uncalled for under most circumstances. Notable exception is a gunshow
where there is no safe direction and the guns are cable tied.

 

[Brian Dale]

Thumper-man,

The world IS full of uncleaned Glocks ...


Oops.

 

[BamBam-31]

I don't think you're being too anal. Those circumstances bother me as well.

Keep up the diligence. Worst that can happen is it becomes contagious (kinda like how unsafe gun handling is contagious). Don't let anyone tell you different.

 

[C.R.Sam]

Nope.

Sam

 

[Carnitas]

Cooper said somthing to the effect of "it should require a conscious effort of will to violate one of the rules.

 

[Lord Grey Boots]

Absolutely NOT.

I NEVER believe anyone who tells me a gun is unloaded. I will ask/TELL/ORDER them to point it in a safe direction, keep their finger OFF the trigger, and SHOW ME the empty chamber.


"Don't worry its not loaded" is likely to get a "Well mine is, and it WILL be pointed at your head if you point that at me again" from me.

 

[SteelyDan]

I'll join the choir. No, I don't think you're being too anal. There's a reason they are "rules," and not just suggestions. This is doubly true if you're dealing with a younger person who is still learning to shoot.

Having said this, I also think there are occasions where the rules can be "bent" a little if you're with people you know and trust. Two examples: (1) if you're pheasant hunting and your dog is behaving in a manner that you know means he will probably kick up a bird in the next few seconds, you can slip your safety off and point the shotgun in a safe direction, and (2) if you're going into the brush after a wounded bear, you can take the safety off. In neither case, however, should your finger touch the trigger unless and until you have a target in sight.

For me, it all comes down to common sense, with any questionable calls being answered on the side of safety. When you're dealing with people you don't know or who haven't earned your trust, then you are absolutely correct in enforcing strict adherence to the rules.

 

[Stickjockey]

LastBoyScout-

If you're worries about being too paranoid, just ask yourself: since you became so "paranoid", have you had an AD/ND? If the answer is no, then you're not being too paranoid.

I get twitchy in gunstores too, mostly because some of the handling by people on both sides of the counter leaves much to be desired. I won't go near the counter at our local Sportsman's Warehouse for this very reason.

 

[NewShooter78]

Just because you're paranoid doen't mean they're not out to get you!

But seriously, one thing that I'm always adament about is being swept by a gun. The only time I'm unfazed by a gun pointed at me is when I'm handing it back to the salesman with the action locked open after I've inspetcted the barrel. I always hand it back to them so they are holding the grip. I always try and hand a gun back to the salesman in a safe manner. If its a rifle its pointing up.

 

[Ryder]

Just because you're paranoid doen't mean they're not out to get you!

Hahhaha, that saying reminds me of the looks I get from others while handling pistols at the gun shop display cases and I've never swept anyone other than myself to my knowledge.

You've got the right idea Boy Scout. Make safe handling a habit. It's not something reserved only for when you think the gun is loaded.

 

[rayra]

Nope. Not too anal at all.
Jackasses that sweep the other customers at the store are just as likely to do it at the range.
Keep at it. Keep educating the idiots around you on proper and safe gun-handling.

 

[Art Eatman]

I educated a whole courtroom full of people about gun handling and safety. I was one of a jury, and the prosecutor was waving the "evidence" around. I firmly asked the judge to request the "gentleman" open the cylinder and even then refrain from pointing the revolver at me or anybody else. I explained that as far as I'm concerned, all guns are always loaded.

A few chuckles and a lot of nods around the courtroom.

"Old Sour Face" complied with the judge's order.

, Art

 

[Thumper]

Cooper said somthing to the effect of "it should require a conscious effort of will to violate one of the rules.

Ol' Coop hits it again...almost like a physical barrier...good description.

 

[Brian Williams]

Nope, but I prefer to have the action open, not closed and with safety on.

Auto - slide or bolt locked to rear with mag out
Revo - Cylinder open
pump - bolt to the rear
Lever - lever open
bolt - bolt open and to rear

 

[jrhead75]

Seems to me like your dad could use a refresher course in firearms safety.

Your #3 example really gave me the willies...

Sounds like you've got your head on straight. I vote "no" to your original question.