ND in a full house.

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

helpless

Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
770
I know when NDs are brought up here, most of the time no one admits that they happen and when they do admit it it is at the range with the firearms pointed down range. I believe that some people might not want to admit that it happens. I will catch hell from you guys but I feel it is important to bring this up.

Last night I stopped by my parents house to see them before they left for vacation and to bring my father my locking pistol case so he could transport his G26 on the airline. I also brought my little sisters G26 home because my younger brother who is a Iraq war vet is now home and can be trusted with looking after the pistol. It was a gift for her last Christmas but I have only had time for a few lessons and she hasn't yet shown the respect (Ironically) for the firearm that is expected for her to be trusted with the pistol. Mentioning that she wants to take it with here with out a carry permit and not keeping it in a safe place ect.

So my father begins to take down my sisters G26 and my brother says to him dad aren't you taking yours? (LEO Capt and also has a G26) So my dad ask him, are you going to hold on to hers? My brother replied yes, "I am taking her shooting on Thursday."

And then my dad says get mine out of the drawer, and my brother gets it out of the drawer keeping it holstered and places it on the table.

My father sets my sisters G26 next to it and picks his up and unholsters the pistol and begins to take it down.

BANG.

My brother
His buddy he served in Iraq with
Myself
My Girlfriend
My Brothers Girlfriend
My Mother
My Sister
My New Puppy
My Families Dog

Where all in the house.

My brother looked to see where the glock was pointed and ran to the living room

"Everyone okay?" "Check" "Everyone Check" (I am tearing up as I type this)

I went to my dad to see if he was hurt.

He was not.

Everyone was okay. But those few second where scary. The bullet hit a wooden chair 3 feet in front of my dad and then changed direction and went down into some decorative bull, and then the kitchen floor tile.

Please realize that the four guys handling these firearms where no boobs.

two Vets, one 25+ year LEO and myself.

You can not let yourself get distracted. Just thinking about what could have happened makes my gut hurt.

When I had my ND a while back I was in the house with a friend and I dryfired my pistol into the wall. That is another story, needless to say I do not dryfire now and when I do it is into the ground.

EVERY GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED ALL THE TIME.
 
It really sucks, we were all pretty messed up over the whole thing, Mostly my dad. It just makes you feel like a total screw up.
 
It just proves that no matter how experienced you are, it only takes a moment of not paying attention for such things to happen.
 
I am in the habit of always checking chambers both visually and with my pinky finger before dry firing. I do this even if I am certain there is not a cartridge in the barrel.

The likelihood of negligently discharging a firearm is greater than zero if both the firearm and ammunition are present. Meaning that it is only a matter of time before a negligent discharge occurs. The idea is to make this amount of time greater than ones lifespan.

It really irks me when I hear someone indicate that just because they have served in the military or are law enforcement that they are safer than the rest of us. Handling firearms safely is all about developing a set of good habits no matter who you are. Handling one in a professional context can most likely increase the odds of having a negligent discharge as the professional is required to handle said firearm more frequently. When the likelihood is greater than zero the odds of having a negligent discharge are not in the professionals favor.
 
It really irks me when I hear someone indicate that just because they have served in the military or are law enforcement that they are safer than the rest of us. Handling firearms safely is all about developing a set of good habits no matter who you are. Handling one in a professional context can most likely increase the odds of having a negligent discharge as the professional is required to handle said firearm more frequently.
Click to expand...

I agree, This is the main reason for me posting this.
 
Well said

It just proves that no matter how experienced you are, it only takes a moment of not paying attention for such things to happen
Click to expand...

It doesn’t matter how many times you do things right... I only takes doing it wrong once to have disastrous consequences. I am glad that you and yours were safe and that no one was hurt. Also, thank you for posting this. I little reminder every now and again helps keep the rest of us on our toes.

Not Glock bashing here, because in the end it was operator error, but the idea of having to pull the trigger to field strip a pistol is something that would make me uneasy.
 
That horrible pit-of-the-stomach "screw up" feeling is really a wonderful gift. (Especialy when nobody's hurt.) Hold onto that feeling, cherish it. Bring it up every now and again so it does not fade.

You will think about every act you take with the firearm instead of just "doing". Even something as simple as picking it up.

I've never had an AD/ND with a firearm, unless you count riding the trigger or playing with the sear when I was shooting on a hot range, already on target, and surprisng myself. However, I have had tons of AD's/ND's and what I call WSD's (willfully stupid discharges) with airguns as a kid. It was a good thing, as I got it out of my system.
 
What discharged the weapon?

Did your dad pull the trigger? You say:

"my father sets my sisters G26 next to it and picks his up and unholsters the pistol and begins to take it down."

So the gun discharged without the trigger being pulled? Or he pulled the trigger without checking to see if it was clear.

It might sound nitpicky, but I hear too often that they "don't know how it happened."

Well, it happened because someone pulled the trigger of a loaded gun. So did he pull the trigger, or was it a mechanical failure on the gun, or did it get caught on a ballpoint pen or a zipper or something?

I'm not being a smartass, I really want to know the conclusion you and your dad came to. Is it really as simple as "I pulled the trigger, I thought it was unloaded and clear."
 
What discharged the weapon?

Did your dad pull the trigger? You say:

"my father sets my sisters G26 next to it and picks his up and unholsters the pistol and begins to take it down."

So the gun discharged without the trigger being pulled? Or he pulled the trigger without checking to see if it was clear.

It might sound nitpicky, but I hear too often that they "don't know how it happened."

Well, it happened because someone pulled the trigger of a loaded gun. So did he pull the trigger, or was it a mechanical failure on the gun, or did it get caught on a ballpoint pen or a zipper or something?

I'm not being a smartass, I really want to know the conclusion you and your dad came to. Is it really as simple as "I pulled the trigger, I thought it was unloaded and clear."
Click to expand...

Yes he pulled the trigger. I also think it is pretty stupid when people say, they dont know how it happens, as if the gun shoots it's self.

Basically what happened is he just cleared an identical pistol and allowed himself to get distracted in the mist of switching the two and then began to finish taking down the G26 he just cleared forgetting that he had just switched it with another.

I guess you could call it a brain fart. We were all talking about their vacation and how my brother and his army buddy just got into the police academy and...

BANG.
 
I'll be honest, I used to be such a hard-on about loaded firearms, and since I got a CCW I'm pretty used to "condition 1", I used to not be able to be comfortable with a gun in my presence until I checked it, but now (oddly enough) my complacency has just made me (truly) assume that all firearms are loaded. Thanks for the reminder! Sounds scary!
 
not the weapon's fault at all, but...

this does make me nervous about glocks. obviously we need to be checking, double-checking, triple-checking the status of any weapon before we handle it. i'm down with that, and i have so far avoided having a ND as a result of this habit.

however, having to pull the trigger for takedown increases the chances that the user forgetting or simply neglecting to double-check will result in an ND.

as was said above...as long as ammo and gun are present together, the chance of ND is greater than zero. but if you have to pull the trigger for takedown, that chance [in my mind] increases.

hey, it was the user's fault...always. but the takedown procedure for a glock just makes me nervous. especially being around someone else doing it if i don't know what their level of gun responsibility and familiarity is.


man...this is one of the things i love about revolvers...
 
I have had people call me "paranoid" and accuse me of having a case of OCD because I am so adamant about safety procedures. What the heck, I can take it.

For the newcomers among us, here are the Four Universal Rules of Firearms Safety:

  1. All guns are always loaded. (Treat them so!)
    .
  2. Never point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
    .
  3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).
    .
  4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond.

These safety rules ALWAYS apply, even if you are just cleaning the gun, or just dry firing, or just handling a gun in the gun store, or just loading the range bag on your way out the door for a day of shooting. They apply every time you pick up a gun from the very moment you pick it up until the very moment you set it down.

helpless' father broke all four of the basic safety rules: he considered the gun unloaded and treated it without the respect people give a loaded gun (rule 1). He allowed the gun to point at something he was not willing to destroy (rule 2). He put his finger on the trigger when the gun was not pointed at a designated target (rule 3) with a safe backstop behind it (rule 4).

Ordinarily, the overlapping nature of the four rules prevents tragedy even when people have a brain fart and do something they shouldn't. But in this case, because all four rules were broken at the same time, it was sheer luck (and not any residual safety habits) that prevented a tragedy.

This CAN happen to you. It can happen every time you pick up a gun. All it takes is a brief moment of inattention, coupled with an habitual disregard for one or more of the overlapping safety rules.

I'm willing to bet good money that helpless' father does not have a designated "target" in front of a safe backstop at which to point his firearms when they are being handled in the home. If so, that's a deliberate, ongoing violation of two of the four rules, and needs to be fixed.

If you handle guns in the home -- and what gun owner doesn't? -- you need a designated safe direction in your home. And you need to habitually use that safe direction, every single time you handle a gun in your home.


helpless ~

What an embarrassing story. Thanks for being brave enough to share it, and maybe help prevent someone else from experiencing a preventable tragedy.

Glad you and yours are all okay!

pax
 
I've developed a couple of forms for applicants of various kinds to fill out, and I have discovered that despite my best thinking in designing a form, somebody always figures out a way to misinterpret something on it.

Hang on, I'm getting there.

One item which always amused me was so many of them put in "USA" in the blank that requested "County."

Read it again. That's C O U N T Y, not C O U N T R Y.

Hang in there...

This happened on a few items from time to time, and I'd have to revise the form, all the time thinking "What's the matter with these people?"

Well after a couple of years of this, I decided that no mater how stupid the people looked to me, if it was a consistent problem, the problem was not with the people, it was with the form, no matter how clear I thought it might be.

In other words, "If the system doesn't reflect reality, you can't change reality. You have to change the system."

So. I've heard enough of this "pulling the trigger" to strip the Glock problem that I've decided that there isn't anything wrong with reality.

There's something wrong with the Glock.

After all, you can't change reality.

There. I said it and I ain't taking it back.

Let the "Yeah, buts" and the "If, if, ifs." follow.

You still can't change reality.
 
Last edited:
I know it may have been a brain fart, but it happened when he wasnt following the 4 rules. I once heard that as long as you remember the four rules, even if you eventually make a mistake and/or become negligent and break one of them no one should get hurt. That is why on this board we hear of some ND's that happen with no one getting hurt because many people on THR pay so much attention to the 4 rules that even when violating one, the gun is still pointed in a safe direction, the backstop is known, etc, etc and no one is hurt.

I think this is why complacency is so dangerous, multiple rules are broken, and people get hurt...it was simply luck that kept anyone from being injured in this situation, but I am very happy to hear that luck was on your family's side. Hopefully this was a wake up call.
 
Well after a couple of years of this, I decided that no matter how stupid the people looked to me, if it was a consistent problem, the problem was not with the people, it was with the form, no matter how clear I thought it might be.

In other words, "If the system doesn't reflect reality, you can't change reality. You have to change the system."
Click to expand...

The system does reflect reality; reality is people are stupid. I don't know the exact percentage, but there are plenty of stupid people out there. This also includes lazy and careless. That explains the problem with your form.

As for the Glock, there are other guns that require the trigger to pulled for disassembly (my Taurus 24/7 Pro, for example).

I'm sure no one has ever had a ND with a 1911, Sig, 642, 92FS, SP101, USP, or any other gun.

Helpless already identified the cause of the ND: distraction and failure to pay attention. This does not make him, his father, or any one else he associates with a criminal, an idiot, a boob, a twit, or a communist. It makes them HUMAN. This was not a Glock error, it was HUMAN ERROR.

I am willing to say with confidence that more Glocks are currently in use right now as duty sidearms and CCWs in the United States than any other brand or style of gun. If they truly were the menace some people make them out to be, they would have been litigated out of existence a long time ago.
 
Last edited:
+1000 on the four rules.

I am not going to even get into the argument about it being a problem with the glock design.

Embarrassing is an understatement. It happened to my father a man who I look up to. To me this just tells me that it CAN happen to anyone. And yes my pops broke all the rules but he is only human.

Even you guys who are saying, "Not me, I am super super safe." remember that you are all human.

Thanks for reading this guys, and stay safe.
 
Yeah you guys are right if it was a sig it would not have happened.

:barf:

Some of you guys are missing the point.

glock or no glock this would have happened sooner or later because my dad became complacent.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

C
  • Locked
Sometimes it just takes a scare
2
Replies
46
Views
3K
Art Eatman
A
S
  • Locked
How many have siblings with no interest in shooting?
2
Replies
31
Views
847
CajunBass
CajunBass
M
  • Locked
home invasion scare
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
DFW1911
D
L
  • Locked
My Brother's Collection
Replies
10
Views
981
Lancel
L
T
  • Locked
Am I too anal about the 4 rules?
2
Replies
31
Views
1K
TallPine
T
Back
Top