Am I too critical of some fellow gun owners here?

[Ought Six]

g:

"But when you hear certain folks who can't take a dump, without a gun next to the toilet, that goes way past normal. There is a point of paranoia, that is just not healthy, and serves no real purpose."

What purpose does exaggerating and then denigrating the views of others serve?
----------

"Unless you are a fugitive there is no reason to walk around the house armed."

In your circumstances, perhaps. In everyones' circumstances, there are bound to be exceptions to broad absolute statements like this. When I lived in a very bad neighborhood once, I carried most of the time while at home. Shootings in that neighborhood were common. I got out as soon as I could, of course, but when I was forced by circumstances to live there, going armed was the sensible thing to do. My friends did not abandon me. Most of them were just jealous that I had better firearms than they did.

You are simply not in a position to say that going armed at home is always wrong. What is not right for you may be the right thing for others. You are making judgements based upon a single incident you experienced.

The bottom line here is that I think it wise to at least have access to a defensive firearm nearby whenever possible. You do not have to tell anyone about it. It will not make you a social outcast (though I question the value of such 'friends' if it did). Being prepared does *not* make you a crazy person. A couple generations ago, keeping a gun handy would have been considered the norm in many if not most parts of this nation. I think our forebearers had it right.

 

[poor_richard]

Yeah, maybe there is some similarity. Or at least a sliding scale between the two, and they're not that far apart as far as I can see. Where's that line?

The thing that gets me is the apparent criticism of carrying in church. This strikes me as odd in light of the recent incidents involving churches. I don’t know. I guess carrying at church (in light of recent shootings) doesn’t seem that much more over the top than carrying the mall, or … I really don’t know.

Where’s the line? I don’t know. I tend to be a “up to the individual” kind of guy. As far at the “Mayberry” comment: It sounded like that doctor in CT was in that type of situation.

I just thought of what makes such things seem OTT to me:
When the poster show an amount of “hero syndrome” after being advised by calmer beings to avoid that behavior. An example would be of someone who insists on the need to stay in a dangerous situation when the opportunity to leave arises, out of a sense of protecting his friends or strangers. Sometimes they even chose to inject themselves into the scenario. Or, they continue to give more (new) reasons why they can’t remove themselves from that situation.

Would that be a line?

Let’s look at it from this angle: What isn’t OTT?

Is it carrying every where legal?
The old “concealed is concealed” comment (with a wink and a nod)?
Armed at home (in any capacity)?
Certain degree of being armed at home?

Thanks for the response.

 

[Ought Six]

If it works for you and puts no one (except potential attackers) in danger, then who gives a damn if somebody else thinks it is 'over the top'?

 

[siglite]

Let’s look at it from this angle: What isn’t OTT?

Is it carrying every where legal?
The old “concealed is concealed” comment (with a wink and a nod)?
Armed at home (in any capacity)?
Certain degree of being armed at home?

Thanks for the response

Hahah, well, ok, looking at it from the other side it gets a little more gray. I'm inclined to think "I know OTT when I see it." But hey, what's OTT for me is clearly not OTT for someone else. I think I saw someone on some forum or other make the claim that he carried five firearms (and associated ammo) daily. To me, that's OTT, and I hoped he never fell in water over his head. Clearly to him, it is not. So now we get down to finding the median. Honestly, because of the clear wording of the second amendment, I am inclined to give people as much leeway as they need. As long as they are not a threat to me, I don't care. If they have an NFA Uzi in their backpack, have HKs on each thigh, and an assortment of Berettas and Sigs around their waist, what do I care as long as they're not a threat to me. Who am I to condemn their choices? The founders were damned clear on their positions and definitions with regard to bearing arms. In my opinion, if someone only feels comfortable driving around their farm in a medium battle tank, good for them. It's not a problem unless they start lobbing shells at people offensively.

In short, I suppose that line probably falls directly between a guy that carries a lot of gear in a lot of places, and the guy that builds a compound in Montana, starts calling himself Jesus, prints his own money, writes his manifesto, and starts planting bombs in commercial buildings.

My issue, is that I do NOT believe that the former is the inevitable path to the latter. They are not the same animal. But it seems the unwritten implication in this thread is to the contrary. Why else would so many post "some of these people scare me?"

 

[billdeserthills]

Is it me?

Yes, it is you.
I was beaten by three guys back in 1990, after they got all done beating the crap out of me they then demanded my wallet- At that point I was going to keep it (I was already beat up, why give up my money) Then I noticed the 4th guy had a gun pointed at my girlfriend's kid- I gave up my wallet. After retrieving my empty wallet I called the police, the officer 1st) laughed at me on the phone, 2nd) refused to take a report and 3rd) hung up on me.
If you think I'm joking when you see me walk by with a large gun at my hip, one more in my pocket, along with a couple of knives and a can of pepper spray on my belt, you are welcome to comment. I don't mind your insensative remarks- I do mind not having the ability to defend myself.

I learned long ago that you should be very careful anytime you "tread on someone elses rights" the rights you preserve may turn out to be your own

 

[siglite]

I learned long ago that you should be very careful anytime you "tread on someone elses rights" the rights you preserve may turn out to be your own

+1

 

[Joe Demko]

As far as I'm concerned, you can carry a primary, a BUG, a BUTTBUG, a trunk gun, have guns stashed and cached, a switchblade taped to your ankle, and a razor in your shoe.

Just don't expect me to validate your reasons for doing so or maybe even to be able to ever take you seriously again if you post those reasons here.
The over-the-top set is of morbid interest to me less for the large amounts of hardware they require to feel secure than for the apparent need to be praised as wise and prudent for their level of "preparation."

 

[nelson133]

"Over the top" is a matter of perspective, maybe someone just has more direct experience than you do If nothing seriously violent or life threatening has ever happened to you, then you won't get it. Bad times make it difficult to believe in the "it can't happen here or to me" nonsense.
As said above it is the stakes not the odds. I have had more that one incident when being armed was important. A very close friend almost died because they did not have access to a gun in their home. Common sense says that statistics don't matter when the stuff falls on you. None of these incidents were in high risk areas, nor was there any reason to believe that there was imminent danger.
Choosing to be prepared must be done before trouble comes, it doesn't work any other way. Statistically I may never have another dangerous incident in my life, but I choose not to bet it that way.

 

[RifleGuy]

Oh my, this one has degenerated since I last checked in.

Let's see; if it comforts you to have a gun on/near you at all times, by all means do so. If carrying more armament than the 3rd Ranger Battalion at Benning comforts you, makes you feel secure, eases your mind, etc., more power to you; carry away.

I will not make fun of you or judge you; how you live your life is your business, as is how you choose to defend it. You gotta do what is right for you.

Do some people carry it to extreme? Depends on who is asking. If you feel a Mossberg 500, pepper spray, stun gun, handcuffs, pongee sticks and a pygmy with a spear are necessary to secure the bathroom whilst you conduct a major transaction; so be it. If you need nothing more than a recent edition of People Magazine and a quarter roll of Charmin; so be it.

Why it should matter to me, or to anyone, how you prepare to face the world, I do not know; 'tis none of my concern nor business.

I live in Detroit. We score high on the list of places that suck. I have a couple of guns about the home that are readily accessible to us should the need arise, but don't feel the need to constantly carry. When I'm walking my daughter's mutt a noon I carry nothing more than the pooper scooper; at midnight there will be a Glock in the back pocket.

I think the most important preparation or weapon for the dangers we may face during the day/night is awareness. I don't grasp at my knife as someone enters my sphere of comfort, but I do look them in the eye an assess them for threat potential. I walk with my sholders squared, my head high and I look confident (or as confident as a middle-aged Pillsbury dough boy can look.)

If I am approaching a group of guys in suits & ties I respond differently than I would if it were a group of young kids with bandanas and matching leather jackets.

I look the 7-11 over before I enter, I know where everyone is and what they are doing. If someone looks furtive, nervous, or is sweating profusely in a heavy jacket in August, I'll probably find me a Kroger 2 blocks away.

Awareness is a better weapon than armament any day. Who is around you, what are they paying attention to, what are they carrying, where are their hands, etc.

In my younger days I learned to defend myself with my hands and whatever lay at hand. A determined individual can wreak havoc with something as simple as a stout pen, a rolled magazine, or a plastic serving tray from your local McWendyKingBell.

And in the bathroom, I prefer a spare roll, just in case.

But, this is all just my unsolicited opinion; this and 75 cents will get you a rank coffee at McWendyKingBell.

Good day to you all.

RifleGuy

 

[outofbattery]

I have read many things on here that not only make me roll my eyes but that would have been enough for many fence-sitters on RKBA to have gone to the anti side if they think that's the norm for American gun owners had they seen them.
I enjoy the technical discussion and do see owning firearms as a right,and being able to carry and use them for self defense is part of that,but when the topics veer to such issues as how to bury your stash and some SHTF scenarios,I excuse myself from the table.I'll talk about what to do in case of zombie attack all day long but I don't try to justify buying a cool new gun as "needing a DMR rifle for SHTF" as I can't envision needing to ever pick off marauding former neighbors at 400 yards.
I think there's a not very fine line between being prepared and being paranoid.OTOH,as a middle class,30something caucasian who doesn't dabble in drugs or crime,I'm at the statistically lowest probability of being assaulted,especially here in rural New England,so am I paranoid for even carrying a Glock?According to some I might just be,even if I don't also carry 4 reloads,a BUG,OC,2 tactical folding knives with an AR and shotgun in the trunk and a bug out bag on the front seat...

Something that bothers me considerably from time to time here are conditions placed upon trying to validate/invalidate owning a gun.I'm one of the suckers who paid $1400 for a 10 shot PS-90.Yep,that's a bunch of $ for a glorified .22 but I just wanted it on cool factor and never want to repeat the mistakes of passing up such things as an AUG and SP89 when I could have reasonably afforded them.However,I honestly don't give a rat's hindquarters if the 5.7 isn't AP and has minimal "stopping power".The thing is just for fun,which to me is 100% as valid a reason as self defense.Likewise,I don't really care that my non "top tier" AR's might possible have some fouling issues if I shot 2k rounds a day through them in the Iraqi desert...My take is that if you want something,buy it without having to justify it.The emotions over some things are just incredible too,such as the almost un-natural dislike some people have towards 9mm and Glocks,as if their grandmother's apple pie has been insulted by their existance.

I kind of feel like it's Festivus now.When are the feats of strength?

 

[GRB]

Isn't is strange how some have taken offense to the question being asked, and to another giving an opinion; but yet I am willing to bet that those same who take offense to the question and opinions expressed here would be critical of the likes of GunKid.

I don't fear an inquiring mind at all, not if it is realy making an inquiry and not trolling or flaming with mind already prejudging me. So let me just say, yes there is such a thing as over the top, but defining it would mean that you have to look at it as a reasonable person from the perspective of each person you are examining, and then from the point of view of their realm of experience. You need to look at it kind of like how NY changed the way it charged its juries, and therefore the way the juries must now look at things, after the Bernie Goetz case.

All the best,
Glenn

 

[Linda]

Is it me, or aren't some of these scenarios just a little bit over the top? Where I live, in Pennsylvania, if you take a few simple precautions you need not fear to be without a CCW once in a while.

I do not get to pick the day that I am a victim. I do not know if it will be a warm, sunny, 75 degree day, or if it will be a 13 degree, snow covered day. I do not know if it will be at 9:00AM or if it will be 9:00PM. I do not know if it will be on a Wednesday or if it will be on a Sunday. I do not know if it will be while I walk the busy streets of Columbus, OH or if it will be while I'm visiting in rural Pennsylvania. Only the criminal knows this for sure. I have no choice in when I become a victim. But I do have the choice in arming myself when I walk out the door, or I have the choice to not be prepared when I leave my home, and then live with the consequences. If that makes me "over the top", well then, that's a good thing and I'm proud to be over the top with the rest who take concealed carry seriously.

 

[buzz_knox]

Isn't is strange how some have taken offense to the question being asked, and to another giving an opinion; but yet I am willing to bet that those same who take offense to the question and opinions expressed here would be critical of the likes of GunKid.

It's one thing to make fun of a person who discussess tactical wheelbarrows and, ultimately, committing terrorist acts. It's quite another to do so when a person is talking about carrying in church, where firearms are restricted , at weddings, etc.

But hey, we can always ridicule people who carry Glocks when a 642 is all they need, or who carry reloads when they'll never need it. Then again, we've seen those sentiments before here.

There are people who go over the top. The original post swept with a far wider brush than one can objectively state reach the Gunkid level.

 

[Lamb of Gun]

It's not about expecting danger at every corner, it's about simply being ready for it.

 

[Joe Demko]

I originally posted this about five years ago in a thread about "Are you paranoid?" It pretty well answers the question "Are you over the top?" as well.

You become paranoid when you're constantly and irrationally escalated. CCW is, like fire extinguishers and seat belts, a rational response to a real risk. Festooning yourself with multiple weapons, having more in the car, and going about your daily life as if you are a combatant in a war zone is paranoia. Treating strangers with polite reserve is realistic. Reaching for your weapon every time a stranger speaks to you is paranoia.
Paranoids, IME, also tend to concentrate too heavily on weapons. I've been a survivalist since the Carter-era (when it seemed more pressingly important) and the paranoids all seem to concentrate on weapons and think of TSHTF exclusively in terms of who they are going to need to shoot.
Consider what you have in the car. A spare tire, a jack, a blanket, an umbrella, a cell phone, some bottled water, and maybe some non-perishable food all are reasonable things to have...especially if you live in a sparsely populated area or one with heavy winters. Heck, I can even see the utility of having an inexpensive carbine or shotgun along with some ammo in the trunk. If, however, you think you need a case of MRE's, a full set of BDU's, your Remington 870, your AK-47, a case or two of ammo, a zodiac w/ outboard motor, 500 feet of nylon rope, and a box of condoms just to feel secure while you drive to the grocery store, you are paranoid.
In general, if your level of escalation is not consistent with the realistic threat level you face, you probably need to rethink what you are doing.