Friend was denied LEO job because of too many guns...

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the LAPD heavily undermanned? I swear I just saw some news report to the effect that they are 5,000 officers short of their goal of 13,000, and that they were accordingly lowering their standards to accept people who admit to having used marijuana and (I'm pretty sure I heard this) cocaine. What are they doing turning down someone who is gun-competent?
 
I will say that if he presented himself in the interviews as being fixated or enamored with gun and shooting, he probably didn't pass. No one wants to hire a real life "Tackleberry".
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I'll have to ask him again if his mannerisms came across negative to the interviewer, I was thinking about the exact same thing.

During my interview, I was asked: "Are you the RAMBO type?" with the lines of firearms ownership. I really looked at him in disgust for asking such a question. But the person that asked was a volunteer and doesn't have a badge.
 
Actually, I find myself wondering if that is the real reason for rejection. For a PD in dire need of excellent candidates, it just doesn't ring true.
 
What are the reapply conditions? Have him give all his guns except one to his wife, or sell them to a friend for a dollar each.

Answer the questions truthfully. No, I have no guns or just one gun (but my wife has 15!)

and then buy em back when the interview is done.
 
LEO

I have been a sworn LEO for more than 34 years, County, City and Federal and I have NEVER been asked the number of firearms I own nor the serial numbers, aside from documenting the serial numbers of personal firearms I have qualified with for off duty carry. Nor would I answer if I was asked how many firearms I own. The only ones that are anyones business except my own in what I own that is registered by the NFA Branch of the Department of Treasury.
 
In a somewhat related vein:

Back in the early '90s, a usenet acquaintance mentioned that a friend of his was being interviewed by the Defense Investigative Service for his Top Secret clearance and was told that he would be disqualified for being an NRA member. I was Facility Security Officer of a NASA contractor at the time. I told him, "Have your friiend call DIS and ask the responsible party this question EXACTLY as I phrase it: Is being an NRA member a 'criterion'?" I told him that if he said "yes" or refused to answer, to request to speak to the DIS person's supervisor. I told him he was free to cite my name.

A few days later, he told me that his friend had been approved for his TS. I'd submitted a LOT of people for clearances and was on excellent terms with our DIS rep. I KNEW that if publicly acknowledged homosexuality or spouse swapping were NOT criteria, NRA membership COULDN'T be.

Sometimes people with personal agendas try to express those agendas in tangible ways. When they do, you need to call them on it.
 
I asked the question to an LEO and here's his response:

Noooooo, and having worked for the City of Los Angeles for 30 years, and watching them DQ people I considered good candidates for silly reasons, I think that it leads to too many questions about being a "gun nut" and "looking for a gunfight."

Remember, much of the advice one gets regarding questions about, "What type of gun should I buy to practice on a range with before I get hired?", or "Should I go take a shooting class while waiting to enter the academy?" are usually met with the response that goes:

"Most departments would rather you had never handled a gun or taken shooting classes prior to entering the academy...that way they don't have to break you of any bad habits and soak up their teaching like a sponge."
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Actually, I find myself wondering if that is the real reason for rejection. For a PD in dire need of excellent candidates, it just doesn't ring true.
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I agree. It doesn't pass the snif test, his story doesn't smell right.
I've been involved in conducting background investigations for my former dept for a lot of years. In fact, I just reviewed over 200 background investigations for the current class of applicants. More people apply than ever get hired. It's interesting sometimes to hear the stories of those who say they didn't get hired for one reason or the other. Usually their story isn't anywhere near the real reasons. I've heard all kinds of stories.
"I didn't get hired because I'm a white male."
No, you didn't get hired because you owed money to half the people you've every bought from and haven't paid your bills.
"I didn't get hired because I'm not the right political party."
No, you didn't get hired because 2 of your last employers said they'd never hire you back because you weren't trustworthy.
"I wasn't hired because I told them I didn't want to carry a 9mm."
No, you weren't hired because 2 of your neighbors said you would get drunk, throw loud parties, and was the neighborhood bully.
All kinds of stories but the real one.
 
No disrespect to you buddy CG, but I agree with others. There MUST be something else. Yes, people get DQed for some odd reasons, but I've NEVER heard of anyone getting DQed for owning too many guns or having a CCW permit. Now, when I say too many guns, I'm thinking like 20 or 30 maybe. If he owns hundreds some NFA or a lot of pre ban stuff maybe.

It's not the guns so much as his motivation for wanting to become an LEO. With LASD I was never asked. I owned guns, I'd shot guns, and taken classes. It was never an issue.

I suspect it's either that he came off as too much of a Rambo or too eager to shoot people OR there is another reason he'd prefer not to share with you.

I went through the process with a buddy who was DQed. He told me that it was because he had used Pot once. I later learned that was not the case. He didn't pass the psychological eval.
 
I think a suit through the EEOC; though I don't know what law to hang my hat on would be appropriate in this instance.
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While not an employment attorney, I'm pretty sure that gun owners aren't a protected class when it comes to employment laws.
 
More to it....

That seems to be a very strange reason to deny him to the LAPD and maybe the LA Sheriff's Office.

I tested and passed the exam for LAPD in the spring of 2000. I decided not to go on with the selection but knew I had a very good chance because of LAPD's lower hiring standards and recruiting. I'm not insulting the LAPD or it's officers by saying that. Retired LAPD det Russel Poole explained in his book that after the LA riots in 1992, LA officals lowered many requirements/standards for LAPD and the training was a lot less hard than classes went through before. Poole also also said the LAPD cadets were so few that new classes were under strength for the first time! :eek:

The NYPD is the same way now.
I would think this guy did not pass a voice stress test, polygraph or mental health eval. He just wanted a excuse.
Rusty
 
If that's the real reason, try the Border Patrol. They're hiring and really in need and they have a history of high quality firearms training and proficiency.
 
Would it be a 1st Amendment violation if someone was denied a government job because they had too many books?
 
I find his story a little suspicious, unless he came off sounding like a guy obsessed with guns during the interviewing process.

In any case, there are a lot of police agencies hiring, and every one of them has different criteria for hiring. I have run across guys who applied at dozens of agencies before being hired. If he gives up after being rejected by one place, he needs to go find some other line of work.

Incidentally, I watched a couple of episodes of a reality TV show about cadets at the LASO academy a few months back. Apparently they have no age limit and require no physical exam prior to hiring. One 50 some YO guy had a heart attack during PT. They let him go from the academy for lying on his application and not telling them about the triple bypass he had a year prior. Astonishingly to me, the instructors encouraged him to re-apply, stating he would probably be accepted.
 
But the bad news he shared was his application for the LAPD and the LA County Sheriff's department was denied.
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You understand his side of the story clearly. Did they state those reasons in writing?

Can anyone please share some additional light on why a young man who has a passion with firearms and CCW permit approved holder cannot get into law enforcement?
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I think that there are two questions hidden here:

  1. Is there any reason that a young man with a passion for firearms and a CCW permit cannot get into law enforcement?

    The obvious answer here is that there a 100s of reasons why anyone - with a passion for firearms and a CCW or not might not be able to get into law enforcement. There a host of physical and/or psychological factors that might prevent someone from becoming a peace officer.

    Note also that being washed out for physical and/or psych reason might be humiliating - not necessarily something you'd want to share. If you were washed out for those reasons, ...
  2. Is a passion for firearms and a CCW permit a good reason to deny a young man's application to get into law enforcement?

    That may depend on the strength of the "passion". :)

    I know that on THR, we think that most of what law enforcement does is eat donuts, shoot people, and drive around a lot.

    In fact, it's a little more complex than that. being a police officer is a demanding job that required a lot different skills. Proficiency with firearms as a tool is one of those skills, but not the only skill.

    If your friend was fixated on "shooting people" part, the department may have been pretty skeptical.

Did your friend serve in the military? I am not in law enforcement, but previous discussions with friend makes it seem like military service is very common among police officers, and that departments really like previous MP service specifically.

Mike
 
He's better off in another career field, anyway.
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It all depends on what he wants out of life. Some police and fire departments start paying pensions out pretty quick, and you can start a second career and get a pension to boot(sort of like the military).
 
LAPD/ US Border Patrol...

$10,000.00 for the LAPD? Yee-haw! :D
What is it for out of state applicants now? When I tested for LAPD they only gave you $3000.00, I think.

I'd avoid the US Border Patrol. They get cool cars (Dodge Charger/police package) and nice sidearms; SIGsauer DAK P-229s/HK P-2000 LEMs but the working conditions suck $#@! ;)

I also tested for the US Border Patrol in the spring of 1996. They wanted 1,000s of new special agents and were speeding up the hiring process. I went to a test in east PA. The US Border Patrol agent that ran our testing/selection process was a total a-hole! :mad:
He was a loud mouth jerk who told our large crowd how we could; "look forward to being shot, beaten, cut, and killed". Why the DoJ/US Border Patrol would send a complete nutbag like that out around the US was beyond me.
I've spoken to many LEOs and federal agents who advised against going into the Border Patrol. Many federal agents start out as FAMs or Border Patrol then switch federal agencies.
RS:cool:
 
Generally when a company rejects an applicant, they do not disclose the reason why. This helps keep the applicant from filing discrimination-type lawsuits.

I find it hard to believe that Agencies as big as the LAPD would share their reasons for rejection or disqualification.
 
Actually, when I got interviewed for a PD reserved position they require you to list the firearms you own-with serial numbers. It's probably standard operating procedure for the background check.
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I was a fed. Nobody at any time ever asked me diddly about guns--what I knew about them, how many I owned, had I ever shot, nothing.

'Course, they also had pulled what they could of my military jacket, so that answered more than a few questions.

I seriously doubt your friend was rejected simply because he owned too many guns. Guns are property, and property is constitutionally protected. LAPD and LASO have been sued WAY too many times over rights violations--they know better.

Personally? I think one of two things probably happened. One, his over all scores were below the beltline and there were better, more qualified candidates of the correct lineage and gender orientation ahead of him. This happens in DoJ agencies to a sickening degree, but try proving it.

Second, he just didn't dazzle the interview/selection board. They'll always tell you that you did "Fantastic!" or "Outstanding--best candidate we've had today!" but in reality, you're just getting jerked off for their own amusement.

Trust me, I've sat on a few--not by choice, but because my SAC was pissed at me. Helluva note, eh? Personnel becomes punishment.

Great line out of one of the Dirty Harry movies about Personnel. . . .

Still as true today as it was back then.

If your buddy really wants to be a cop, a big city agency isn't the way to go anymore--at least not for the majority of folks. I meet a lot of suburb cops out here in Texas that started with Dallas PD, LAPD, Chicago, Atlanta, etc--put in time, put in their applications and get the hell out as soon as they can.

Jeff
 
Generally when a company rejects an applicant, they do not disclose the reason why. This helps keep the applicant from filing discrimination-type lawsuits.

I find it hard to believe that Agencies as big as the LAPD would share their reasons for rejection or disqualification.
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LA City is so huge, individual departments do not do the hiring process. It is handled through the City Personnel Dept. When I went through the process, I was advised I have the ability to appeal and inquire if I was turned down at anytime in the process.

If the truthful reason is what you say it is, your friend can appeal, at least you used to be able to.
http://www.lacity.org/per/
 
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