Am I wasting my time?

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CoalTrain49 said:
After I size I gauge check my brass for length. I trim/chamfer the ones that need it. Usually about 50/50 for some weird reason. All of my brass is Lake City range pickup so I have a little consistency.

If I were looking for match grade ammo I would just buy it. I probably can't build it with the gear I have. About the best I can do is 1 MOA with a bolt rifle.
Click to expand...

You might be surprised!

My "match grade" goes through a slightly different process and is tailored to my different bolt guns. For that brass I use a Redding bushing die with a bushing sized for a couple .001" under the seated bullet and case neck thickness. I also FL size, but with the shoulder bumped back a couple .001s. I also use Varget and individually weigh charges.

Last year however I put together an AR15 SPR 18" build using a White Oak barrel as the base. I then put together a load that I could load on the Dillon and skip some of my precision steps using TAC, PMC brass using my 3Gun brass prep and Sierra 77 OTMs with the cannelure. My idea was to find a decent load that I could practice with, while not spending a a lot of time loading. The results were surprising:

5rds at 100:

JvnTcb5l.jpg

I've shot it out to 600 and it holds sub-MOA to at least that distance. It makes me wonder how many of my normal precision steps are worth it.
 
armoredman said:
What do you guys think about this tool? Frankford Arsenal 4 station trimming tool.

"The Frankford Arsenal Platinum Series Case Prep and Trim Center offers 4 work stations to quickly and easily prepare brass for reloading. The permanent trimming station indexes off the case shoulder to trim shouldered cases from 17 Remington to 460 Weatherby without the use of shell holders. The other 3 stations accept any case preparation accessory with 8-32 threads. The Platinum Case Prep Center includes a VLD chamfering tool, Outside Chamfer Tool, as well as large and small primer pocket uniformers. The built in storage box keeps all accessories organized and close at hand. Plugs into standard 110 volt outlet."

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012719754?pid=628405

$160 - I could probably afford that one.
Click to expand...

I have 2 of those.

It takes me 10-15 seconds per case. I must be doing something wrong because, although I turn the brass 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 once the cutter quits cutting, my .223 brass varies .003. I strive for 1.750 but routinely get 1.750-1.753.

It may be my use of the caliper, not the trimmer.

I just know it frustrates me.

Putting brass back in the cutter, then remeasuring, sometimes several times.

But I’ve easily done 150 pieces at a sitting.
 
Your probably tilting the brass a little, that's all it takes. Happens when the holder is not long enough to fully support the brass. That is the reason I made my holder about the twice the length of most drill press mounted trimmers. I also cut the holder so it matches the same profile as a sizing die, so there is no slop..
 
Blue68f100 said:
Your probably tilting the brass a little, that's all it takes. Happens when the holder is not long enough to fully support the brass. That is the reason I made my holder about the twice the length of most drill press mounted trimmers. I also cut the holder so it matches the same profile as a sizing die, so there is no slop..
Click to expand...

You are probably right. I have the collet tightened down pretty good so it takes a moderate amount of pressure to push the case in.

I’ll focus on keeping it straight.
 
The Frankford Arsenal unit was not designed for high end benchrest competition in mind. There are machines with dial indicators, etc for that. Lol. However, for the VAST majority of us, keeping the case length to a 0.003" tolerance, which the FA unit is generally good for... is more than precise enough.

The FA unit does a GOOD job, and does it quickly. For pounding through large quantities of shouldered brass, you can't hardly beat it.

Speaking of 'shouldered brass'... The shoulder is what the FA unit registers off of. It's not going to have the same precision... especially with mixed brand brass... as something that is MUCH slower. Where the FA unit shines is when you need to do a lot of brass, and 'good' precision is good enough. My video is at the end of the first page. It shows how fast and easy the unit works.

I previously had a hand crank Lyman unit, and the dang set collar would drift, screwing up the cases by cutting them shorter and shorter. No such issue with the FA.
 
Chuck R. said:
You might be surprised!

My "match grade" goes through a slightly different process and is tailored to my different bolt guns. For that brass I use a Redding bushing die with a bushing sized for a couple .001" under the seated bullet and case neck thickness. I also FL size, but with the shoulder bumped back a couple .001s. I also use Varget and individually weigh charges.

Last year however I put together an AR15 SPR 18" build using a White Oak barrel as the base. I then put together a load that I could load on the Dillon and skip some of my precision steps using TAC, PMC brass using my 3Gun brass prep and Sierra 77 OTMs with the cannelure. My idea was to find a decent load that I could practice with, while not spending a a lot of time loading. The results were surprising:

5rds at 100:

View attachment 1067616

I've shot it out to 600 and it holds sub-MOA to at least that distance. It makes me wonder how many of my normal precision steps are worth it.
Click to expand...

Nice group!
 
n2omike said:
The Frankford Arsenal unit was not designed for high end benchrest competition in mind. There are machines with dial indicators, etc for that. Lol. However, for the VAST majority of us, keeping the case length to a 0.003" tolerance, which the FA unit is generally good for... is more than precise enough.

The FA unit does a GOOD job, and does it quickly. For pounding through large quantities of shouldered brass, you can't hardly beat it.

Speaking of 'shouldered brass'... The shoulder is what the FA unit registers off of. It's not going to have the same precision... especially with mixed brand brass... as something that is MUCH slower. Where the FA unit shines is when you need to do a lot of brass, and 'good' precision is good enough. My video is at the end of the first page. It shows how fast and easy the unit works.

I previously had a hand crank Lyman unit, and the dang set collar would drift, screwing up the cases by cutting them shorter and shorter. No such issue with the FA.
Click to expand...

I truly appreciate your comment. I’ve struggled to get the exact same measurement on 2 pieces in a row. I was so frustrated with the first FA that I bought off of eBay. I tried to find a new cutter for it. If I remember correctly the RCBS one is an exact fit. When I couldn’t find the cutter in stock, I saw a new one on the shelf @Scheels. I bought, rushed home, set it up!

I learned there was nothing wrong with the 1st one.

Still a variance of .003.

I chopped it up to operator error. After 250 pieces, I actually quit measuring them. I knew when the cutter quit cutting, rotate the case 1/3, usually didn’t cut, then rotate another 1/3, call it done and do the next one.

I’ve realized that’s as good as it gets for me.

But definitely better than doing it by hand.
 
The quick answer is you need to Measure your brass to be sure it’s not too long . This means every piece if it’s from an unknown source . I have the Lyman universal case trimmer with the power drill adapter .

I have found that I can trim a piece of brass just as fast as I can measure it . Now this does not include chamfering but if I trim every piece of brass I don’t need to measure it except for the first couple that I trim to know that my trimmer set correctly .

There are ways to mitigate how much you need to trim on each firing if at all . Using standard dies and bumping your shoulders minimally generally results in less trimming . If you use a small bass die you are going to get more extruded brass through the neck resulting in needing to trim more often .

Some type of prep center for at least the chamfering and deburring is very helpful because doing it by hand sucks especially when you’re doing 500 to 1000 cases at a time . You can spend a little extra money on one of those tri-trimmers that trims chamfers and deburrs in one step off a drill . That may be the way you want to go .
 
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If your using mixed brass you may want to check your shoulder position to base measurement. Since your cutter measure off the shoulder, if this varies so will the length. I anneal my brass every time to keep everything in the same state of hardness. With mixed brass in different harness the shoulder position will be different unless you reset your dies for every type of condition. As long as your within the tolerance just move on, your not going to see any difference on paper.
 
I really like the Dillon trimmer. If the case needs to be trimmed it is. If it’s Ok, it is not touched by the blade and 1000/hour is easy even for old hands that can cramp up with any of the “hold every case” methods.

Set the die/trimmer and I don’t touch a case until after they are loaded and drop in/out of a case gauge before boxing.
 
kalielkslayer said:
I truly appreciate your comment. I’ve struggled to get the exact same measurement on 2 pieces in a row. I was so frustrated with the first FA that I bought off of eBay. I tried to find a new cutter for it. If I remember correctly the RCBS one is an exact fit. When I couldn’t find the cutter in stock, I saw a new one on the shelf @Scheels. I bought, rushed home, set it up!

I learned there was nothing wrong with the 1st one.

Still a variance of 0.003"
Click to expand...

The original FA cutter does not use an indexing pilot, but if using the RCBS or McJ cutting head, a pilot can be used. I use the pilot in mine. Centers the brass and allows it to do a better, more precise job... as it is inherently going to cut straighter.
 
I seldom load anything but 223 so keep my RCBS trimmer set for that. I don't measure except with it. If it's too long it gets trimmed. Just one action on my part takes care of everything.
 
I recently did about a 5 gallon bucket of 223. After depriming, sizing and tumbling I used the calipers and checked every case for length. I sorted into 4 bins. Anything within 1.747 to 1.753 got chamfered and tossed into the goodtogo bin. Anything longer went into the trim bin and was later trimmed to 1.75" with the lee case gauge/trimmer set into the Lyman prep center. Anything 1.738 to 1.746 got chamfered and tossed into the short bin. Anything 1.737 or shorter went into the scrap bin.

Everything got checked for length and chamfered. Only had to actually trim just over 1/3 of the bucket.

After tweaking the lee case gauge/trimmer for the length I was targeting, it was trimming everything to 1.75 to 1.751". the consistency (with speed) was what I been looking for. I tried lee trim dies with the hand crank cutter and also with the cutter attached to a drill and I was getting variances of up to 0.007" Plus the brass shavings were getting all over the press and work bench. The Lyman prep center threw a little brass on the bench but not much.
 
OP: "Am I wasting my time ... about trimming and chamfering rifle brass ..."

I remember buying two boxes of new Winchester brass for handloading in .30-30 a few years back (OK decades ago, make me feel old). The necks were all slightly long and uneven. They required trimming and chamfering.

Prior to that, my experience was reloading my fired brass, and I had found that checking overall case length with the trimming tool and slight chamfering didn't hurt but was usually unnecessary.

New brass for handloading may be deliberately over length expecting the loader to trim to length for their gun's chamber, and trimming usually leaves inside and outside neck burrs requiring chamfering (at least, my hand trimming tool does).
 
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I use an RCBS small base X-die for my sizer die on annealed cases for .308 Win and .223 Rem brass. That was the end of 'long' necks for me. I do not crimp the necks after seating the bullet. YMMV !
 
armoredman said:
I'm asking this on several forums to get a consensus of sorts.
...
Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Consensus of strangers on the internet vs. consensus of industry experts with their businesses and livelihood on the line...

Wishing you only success! :thumbup:
 
kalielkslayer said:
You are probably right. I have the collet tightened down pretty good so it takes a moderate amount of pressure to push the case in.

I’ll focus on keeping it straight.
Click to expand...
I use a Forster trimmer and loosen the collet and retighten for each case. Not sure if that is right, but it seems very consistent once set up. If I was doing lots and lots of trimming, this would not be the trimmer I would want, and automated one would become very appealing very quickly if I was.
 
Trimming rifle brass is a necessary evil and finding a tool that balances the cost with ammount of precision required can be daunting. I am happy with .01 variance and will just run them all through the Lee setup on a drill press. It is easier than measuring each one. Then chamfer and ream in batches as well. If I was doing things by the thousands every week or wanting more precision with long distance shooting I would spend the money on a vastly better setup. Currently I am not good enough on target to shoot the difference LOL.
 
Trimming brass is like sharping a drill bit, it a real pain but it needs to be done & done correctly to get the job done.
 
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