America has got it good

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GUN BOY

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I just thought I'd say some things about Australian gun laws to make you all feel better. All these laws started in 1996 after the Port Arthur Massacre, Google it.

For the average recreational shooter:
No semi-auto shotguns
Maximum of 12 guage for shotguns
No semi-auto rifles
Hand Guns for range use only
You have to supply a REASON for each new firearm purchase
You then have to wait 28 days to be able to take your gun home
Self Defence is not a reason for owning a firearm
3 days after the Port Arthur Massacre a nationwide buy back began. The Prime Minister stood up in front of all the responsible gun owners handing in their prized possesions in bullet proof armour and told them the scheme probably wouldn't work.
Today 1% of firearm related crimes involve licensed firearms.

I am sure there are more stupid rules but I can't think of them at the moment. I will add them when I do.
 
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Yes, relatively speaking, we do have it good. Not as nice as we would like, but much better than every other country "civilized" country I am aware of.

Did they grandfather stuff when that was enacted?

Is "Because I want it," a valid reason? :neener:
 
Not as good as you may think. State/local jurisdictions still threaten our right to keep and bear arms, then there's roundabout ways of denying ownership, which while well meaning harm those that shouldn't be.

Given, we do have it better than most of the world, but there's still a ways to go. What you should do is see about over-turning some of those. The ruling against self-defense is a serious one. Does your country recognize the right to life? If so, why can't you protect your right? So is that "right to life' just something nice sounding on paper, or does it have any teeth? Make them stumble on their words a bit.
 
Didn't assaults. robberies, etc. fly through the roof after that 96 ban in Australia?
 
No pump action or semi-auto shotguns
Maximum of 12 guage for shotguns
No semi-auto rifles
Hand Guns for strict range use only
You have to supply a REASON for each new firearm purchase
You then have to wait 28 days to be able to take your gun home
Self Defence is not a reason for owning a firearm

I live in aus, some of these are true, other are not. you can have pump and semi auto shotguns, max 5 shot capacity, you have to have a cat C and or D license to be able to obtain them. again you can get semi-auto rifles you just have to have a cat C/D license. i'm not to sure about handgun's.
 
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very, medical reason im pretty sure, like extreme sholder injuries, or something along those lines. d license is a dealers license. you might be able to get one if your in the army or the reserves to practice, but i'm not sure on the specifics, but its quite hard to get for a regular joe blow.
 
I have to say, it was horrifying to read that and to think he was able to get a gun after being diagnosed mentally handicapped is also horrifying.

And of course it's horrifying to think that not one single person was legally able to carry a firearm in self defense.

There is always the chance that a single law abiding armed citizen could have stopped this whole thing.

But no, it's easier to pass a bunch of laws that do nothing but make people "feel" better. Very unfortunate.

By demonizing the gun itself people "feel" better but nothing really changes. The gun is simply a tool. If you make that tool harder to get criminals simply use other tools.

Proof of this lies in the fact that the OVERALL homicide rate in Australia didn't really change with the massive gun legislation.

Anti's love to show the statistics that GUN crime with certain firearm types went down. Well no kidding.... But who cares if OVERALL crime didn't go down. All that has been done is to force criminals to use other tools, and deny law abiding people the proper tool for defense.

Anti's in the US love to talk about the successes in Australia and Great Britain, so we "have it good" here for now but it can change based on feel good politics, just like it did for Australians.

In 1915 in Australia, the homicide rate was 1.8 per 100,000 population. In 1998 it was 1.6 per 100,000. During the intervening years it hit a low of 0.8 in 1941 and a high of 2.4 in 1988.

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For the last decade of the century the Australian Institute of Criminology has monitored every homicide in Australia. The dataset shows that homicide in Australia was characterised by the following features.

There were 3,150 homicide incidents over the decade, averaging 315 per year, a figure that did not fluctuate much.

The time period for this was 1991-2001.

They just changed the tool of choice:

Victims of homicide were more likely to be killed with a knife or other sharp instrument than any other weapon. There was a declining trend in the proportion of victims killed with a firearm, with an average of 81 victims killed per year with a firearm.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/4524A092E30E4486CA2569DE00256331



 
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Our legal structure concerning firearms is good only when compared to other countries. It has degraded dramatically over the last 42 years, however, with no effect on the rates of violent crimes involving firearms. Compared to pre-1968, we have it bad.
 
I agree with you Texas Rifleman, I had the same thought but the sheer magnitude of the situation had most of my attention. I have two young sons and was horrified that this guy could just execute a 3 and 6 yr old girl just because he felt like it and before that executed their mother in front of them.
 
Australia is a fascinating place. It has a great many similarities to the US, but also some very fundamental differences. It was settled as a British colony, just as the 13 colonies were. It had penal migrants just as several colonies here did. And it had a large native population. But Australia's sense of itself is very different. They've been involved in many wars and have many famous, heroic soldiers to their credit, but as a nation they focus on a terrible defeat for identity--Gallipoli. The US has had worse defeats, but we prefer to forget about them. Nobody celebrates the fall of the capital in the war of 1812 for example. We celebrate Jackson kicking A after the war had technically ended. In fact everyone we celebrate seems to have been kicking A. If they weren't kicking A, it's best not to speak of them. Nor do we celebrate the many debacles during WWII such as Hurtgen or the Gothic Line. I think it speaks volumes about the difference between Americans and Australians. They would be embarrassed to celebrate a victory in the trenches. Their identity is more down-trodden and hard-suffering than aggressive and bombastic.

While both nations have frontier pasts of intense violence and a great deal of gun slinging, Australia has largely rejected that past in favor of a highly urbanized and disarmed way of life. The US has long celebrated its gunslingers, from the old west to the street gangs and mobsters. Our identity is in part tied to the firearm in a way Australians find terrifying--even some ostensibly pro-gun Aussies. We celebrate Wyatt Earp and Audie Murphy, they celebrate Simpson and his Donkey. I think that explains a lot about their gun laws and the way they view firearms.
 
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I just thought I'd say some things about Australian gun laws to make you all feel better. All these laws started in 1996 after the Port Arthur Massacre, Google it.

No pump action or semi-auto shotguns
Maximum of 12 guage for shotguns
No semi-auto rifles
Hand Guns for strict range use only
You have to supply a REASON for each new firearm purchase
You then have to wait 28 days to be able to take your gun home
Self Defence is not a reason for owning a firearm
3 days after the Port Arthur Massacre a nationwide buy back began. The Prime Minister stood up in front of all the responsible gun owners handing in their prized possesions in bullet proof armour and told them the scheme probably wouldn't work.
Today 1% of firearm related crimes involve licensed firearms.

I am sure there are more stupid rules but I can't think of them at the moment. I will add them when I do.

Your a little off with most of that.
For a start I'm an Aussie and I can own all those firearms you listed.

Pump action and semi auto shotguns - still more common than you might think. They are a cat C licence generally for sporting use with a medical certificate or farmers or collectors or dealers. Semi auto .22 rifles are in this category as well.

Don't know of the max 12 gauge part, never considered it before, 12ga will do me just fine.

Yes semi auto rifles are allowed as mentioned above .22 semi autos are a cat C and not too hard to get. Centrefire are Cat D and generally only for Farmers or dealers or collectors or people employed with the state forest or some such that would need that kind of rifle in that job.

Handguns are for target shooting no hunting allowed, its not THAT strict at the range.

You only need to state a target match (i.e IPSC, ISSF, SERVICE etc) for handguns or just hunting or target shooting for rifles. Again no big deal its only a word or two you need to write down on a piece of paper.

The 28 day cooling off period has been abolished, if you already own a firearm of that type.

You can not put down self defence as a reason to own a firearm(s) and expect to get a licence, you are right there. But that does not mean a legally owned firearm may not be used in self defence.
 
very, medical reason im pretty sure, like extreme sholder injuries, or something along those lines. d license is a dealers license. you might be able to get one if your in the army or the reserves to practice, but i'm not sure on the specifics, but its quite hard to get for a regular joe blow.

A D licence is Cat D, as in a licence to own semi auto centre fire rifes, not a dealers licence.

No they will not let someone own particular rifles just because they are in the military. They practice in the military.
 
The part of the application that is most chilling to me is who is qualified as a referee. It looks like bankers, insurance companies ,and government officials are the only entities wise enough to vouch for the average citizen. I guess mechanics,hairdressers,truck drivers etc. don't clear the bar. One has to wonder who provided the push to get the laws passed,and why.
 
yeah, if your just an average citizen its quite hard to get someone to sign it for you.
 
Cosmoline: To quote from the Australian govt. web site:
"In the end ANZAC [Australian and New Zealand Army Corps] stood and still stands for reckless valour in a good cause, for enterprise, resourcefulness, fidelity, comradeship and endurance that will never admit defeat.
– Charles Bean, official historian of the First World War"

Charles Bean was intent on creating a mythos and succeeded. I've also read that he did not like Jews, so the successes of General John Monash on the Western Front had to be negated. A mythos based on the common soldier persevering under bad officers doesn't work if you record the work of great officers. But the mythos of persevering has deep roots in Australia. The poetry of Henry Lawson also tended to follow the same lines.

Of course the same .gov.au site also says the following: "The founders of the new nation believed they were creating something new and were concerned to avoid the pitfalls of the old world. They wanted Australia to be harmonious, united and egalitarian, and had progressive ideas about human rights, the observance of democratic procedures and the value of a secret ballot."

My understanding is that we don't have a Bill of Rights because during the constitutional conventions it was pointed out that one would have given rights to Chinese and aboriginals. Upon Federation the pacific islander residents were deported, aboriginals were not citizens under the constitution and immigration by Asians was blocked. Western Australia required a clause in the constitution allowing them to secede before they signed up. So the above is a load of crap as well, although the secret ballot was a decent idea.

I need to flesh the idea out in my head, but it seems to me that Americas mythos tended to be based on 'manifest destiny', Australians on 'surviving against the odds'. One expects people to try and win at any endeavor, the other to get by regardless of hardships. The American mythos tends to worship success, even if it is faked or even criminal, but it allows for people to be successful. The Australian mythos is distrustful of success. If you are doing better than getting by you must be cheating.

FWIW, I'm only philosophizing because I've had a hard day working in the sun, trying to make a buck so I can pay pressing bills. Which proves my point. :p

Back on track for THR, Tim the student: No nothing was grandfathered. IIRC over 680,000 semi auto and pump action rifles and shotguns were destroyed after the 1997 law changes.
Things have improved slightly. An attempt to ban pump action rifles was stopped in 2005 or 2006 (Can't recall exactly). A fax and email barrage from shooters stopped it the night before it was to be announced at the Police Ministers conference. John Howard is finally gone. Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has the largest civilian range in Australia as part of his electorate, so he does not make anti gun statements. None of the state premiers who signed on for Howard's 1996 gun ban are in office, IIRC all but Bob Carr went at the next election and Howard's party has been out of office in every state since. This is of course never mentioned in the press.

Anyway, I went shooting on Monday and I'll hopefully shoot a couple of IPSC stages on Saturday. Gun ownership isn't thriving in OZ, but it sure isn't dead.
 
agreed^ there's clay target shooting nearly every second week around where i live, i got a club 500m from me and i go to that every time its on.
 
Question for the Aussies

Is your media paying any attention to things like Heller, McDonald vs Chicago, Palmer vs District of Columbia, and of course the rug-chewing over guns in restrurants in Arizona and Tennessee.

If so - and given what you see here - do they have a clue?
 
Not a peep about the latest cases in our press. There were a couple of paragraphs about Heller when the case was decided, with no depth to the commentary.
 
i think there was someone on channel 7 saying something about it, not sure tho.
 
I live in aus, some of these are true, other are not. you can have pump and semi auto shotguns, max 5 shot capacity, you have to have a cat C and or D license to be able to obtain them. again you can get semi-auto rifles you just have to have a cat C/D license.

Hence why he said "The Average Shooter" Sure there's license available technically, but only to a select, usually well connected few. here in NJ, USA, our laws say you can apply for a permit to carry a concealed handgun. But they give discretion to the county judge, and NO ONE who isn't either a security guard (and its for on the job only) or well connected celebrity is actually issued one. There's 8.6 million people here, and 3,000 permits. So on paper NJ has CCW, but in reality, it does not.
 
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