GUN BOY
Member
The Dark Knight, so as you don't think Aaron12 is completely stupid I thought I'd let you know that I edited that post after his comment.
Aaron12, sorry to make you look stupid.
Aaron12, sorry to make you look stupid.
America has got it good
- Thread starter GUN BOY
- Start date
- Status
GUN BOY
Member
Aaron12, according to the Tasmania Police website a Category C website is only available to people employed in Primary Production; this means that the avarage shooter cannot get one. Here is the website:
http://www.police.tas.gov.au/permits/firearms/licence/categories
Different states have slightly different laws I guess, it did also say collectors could have Cat C in Tas.
Radagast
Member
If that is the case then there are more handgun licenses on issue in my home state of New South Wales, but only to uniformed security guards. The politically connected can still get a CCW, but they are few and far between. The law states that no 'license' for a firearm can be issued for self defence. So a 'permit' is issued instead.
razorback2003
Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2008
- Messages
- 1,231
So the police in New South Wales, Australia issue permits to a few people to carry handguns for self defense? I was not aware of this at all. What is the process for them to get a permit from the police to carry a handgun for self defense if they are not a security guard? Please give some of us Americans the details because we just know that you guys cannot have handguns except for target shooting or for say armed guards and police and assume other than that the handguns are kept at home.
I assume also that if you have a handgun for 'target shooting' and you had a home invasion and you felt your life was in danger that you would be legitimate in using your target pistol in defending you and your family's life in the different Australian states....because Australian law comes from English common law...similar to American law. I just think that you guys down there have a higher standard for deadly force than many of us have in the States.
I assume also that if you have a handgun for 'target shooting' and you had a home invasion and you felt your life was in danger that you would be legitimate in using your target pistol in defending you and your family's life in the different Australian states....because Australian law comes from English common law...similar to American law. I just think that you guys down there have a higher standard for deadly force than many of us have in the States.
razorback2003
Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2008
- Messages
- 1,231
Very Interesting...Permit Link Found for NSW
I found the Police Page for New South Wales...very interesting...if you guys could chime in more please do.
http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/community_issues/firearms/firearms_permits#OffDutyPossessionOfPistol
I found the Police Page for New South Wales...very interesting...if you guys could chime in more please do.
http://www.police.nsw.gov.au/community_issues/firearms/firearms_permits#OffDutyPossessionOfPistol
Your understanding is correct, no one in Australia can apply for a firearms licence/permit (same thing) for self defence and no one can CCW a firearm here no matter how well connected they may be.
This is exempting security guards/police I don't know the laws as well for them but generally they don't take them home but can apply for a permit to take and store them at home. Not sure if the securty guards need a firearms licence/permit to do this though.
Last edited:
Radagast
Member
The NSW Firearms Act allows the police commissioner to issue permits for any purpose.
I ran into one person at a gunshop some years ago who was picking up a S&W .380, apparently his life had been threatened and he had been issued one.
The Independent Commission Against Corruption armed it's officers with Glock 26s for a period of time and they were technically not security guards or police officers, their carry permits were issued by the firearms registry and later revoked when the police department complained about them being armed.
I was told of one ex cop who was issued one due to the criminals he had jailed seeking revenge. When the ex-cop badmouthed the police internal affairs department to the press his permit was revoked the next day.
When the Skaf brothers (drug dealers & gang rapists) were jailed threats were made against some of the warders and a couple of S&W 640s were purchased and issued. This would have required a commissioners permit as Corrective Services is not part of the Police ministry. My 640 was used as a demonstrator for the sale, which is why I know about it.
Kerry Packer (now deceased) media mogul and the richest man in Australia, kept a Glock 19 in his office drawer. When it was stolen he was not charged. The police announced that he had surrendered his category B license and the matter was closed. Category B is for centerfire rifles. Kerry kept his other Glock 19 and his permit/license for it.
Security guards are issued a Category H license to carry a handgun while on duty (but not to own one). Technically they are carrying them for the purpose of employment and not for self defence.
So basically in my home state, yes, individual carry permits are possible, but they are only for the politically connected or government employees.
I am an employee of a firearms dealer and I have never personally handled a commissioners permit for a handgun for self defence. They are as rare as hen's teeth, but they can be issued. In fact if the commissioner wanted to he could issue them wholesale to anyone who asked. And pigs will fly, the media will report unbiased truth, politicians will only represent the interests of their districts and hell will freeze over all on the same day.
I ran into one person at a gunshop some years ago who was picking up a S&W .380, apparently his life had been threatened and he had been issued one.
The Independent Commission Against Corruption armed it's officers with Glock 26s for a period of time and they were technically not security guards or police officers, their carry permits were issued by the firearms registry and later revoked when the police department complained about them being armed.
I was told of one ex cop who was issued one due to the criminals he had jailed seeking revenge. When the ex-cop badmouthed the police internal affairs department to the press his permit was revoked the next day.
When the Skaf brothers (drug dealers & gang rapists) were jailed threats were made against some of the warders and a couple of S&W 640s were purchased and issued. This would have required a commissioners permit as Corrective Services is not part of the Police ministry. My 640 was used as a demonstrator for the sale, which is why I know about it.
Kerry Packer (now deceased) media mogul and the richest man in Australia, kept a Glock 19 in his office drawer. When it was stolen he was not charged. The police announced that he had surrendered his category B license and the matter was closed. Category B is for centerfire rifles. Kerry kept his other Glock 19 and his permit/license for it.
Security guards are issued a Category H license to carry a handgun while on duty (but not to own one). Technically they are carrying them for the purpose of employment and not for self defence.
So basically in my home state, yes, individual carry permits are possible, but they are only for the politically connected or government employees.
I am an employee of a firearms dealer and I have never personally handled a commissioners permit for a handgun for self defence. They are as rare as hen's teeth, but they can be issued. In fact if the commissioner wanted to he could issue them wholesale to anyone who asked. And pigs will fly, the media will report unbiased truth, politicians will only represent the interests of their districts and hell will freeze over all on the same day.
Radagast
Member
Razorback2003: If I was to use my firearms in self defence then I could potentially be charged with unauthorized use of a handgun as my license is for target shooting.
As my guns are in one safe and my ammunition in another, as per the legislation here, the chances of being able to access them in the event of a home invasion is pretty slim. If someone with a gun busts in the front door I am heading out the back as fast as my feet can carry me.
As my guns are in one safe and my ammunition in another, as per the legislation here, the chances of being able to access them in the event of a home invasion is pretty slim. If someone with a gun busts in the front door I am heading out the back as fast as my feet can carry me.
razorback2003
Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2008
- Messages
- 1,231
Australian Laws/Regs
That is odd that you could have potential licensing problems with using your handgun for protecting your life because it is licensed to you as a 'target pistol', even though deadly force is legal in Australia, like any other place in the world....which means as long as you are legal you could be found not guilty in court but possibly lose your target license! CRAZY
I did read at the bottom of the page where the New South Wales Police Commissioner could issue a permit for any firearm for any purpose. I kind of took that, like you mentioned, that he could do as he wished whenever and wherever (kind of under the radar program that he does not want the media to know about) and issue permits for snub nosed revolvers for people to carry concealed in public for protection...but again i had doubts of how often those were issued. That is good that a guy you ran across who had death threats was able to get a permit to carry a S&W 380 and also the prison warden a snub nosed revolver. Thanks for the information.
That is odd that you could have potential licensing problems with using your handgun for protecting your life because it is licensed to you as a 'target pistol', even though deadly force is legal in Australia, like any other place in the world....which means as long as you are legal you could be found not guilty in court but possibly lose your target license! CRAZY
I did read at the bottom of the page where the New South Wales Police Commissioner could issue a permit for any firearm for any purpose. I kind of took that, like you mentioned, that he could do as he wished whenever and wherever (kind of under the radar program that he does not want the media to know about) and issue permits for snub nosed revolvers for people to carry concealed in public for protection...but again i had doubts of how often those were issued. That is good that a guy you ran across who had death threats was able to get a permit to carry a S&W 380 and also the prison warden a snub nosed revolver. Thanks for the information.
armoredman
Member
If any Aussies want a similar climate with better laws, we have lots of room for good gun people here in Arizona.
I read the story of the man who went on a rampage in Australia that lead to their weapons bans and... well... we've had that happen 5-7 times.
It wasn't the guns but a psychotic guy that was the problem. Beside that, where were the cops? I mean, there were 2 cops for the whole area until night fall from 2pm!
If anything, I would have thought the people would have said, "let us carry our own guns since the police can't help us."
What a different state of mind over there... I guess the constitution makes a difference.
It wasn't the guns but a psychotic guy that was the problem. Beside that, where were the cops? I mean, there were 2 cops for the whole area until night fall from 2pm!
If anything, I would have thought the people would have said, "let us carry our own guns since the police can't help us."
What a different state of mind over there... I guess the constitution makes a difference.
GUN BOY
Member
Collectors must have their chamber permanently deactivated
Thats only for Semi auto centrefire rifles and machine guns. Others like handguns, semi auto .22 rifles and shotguns, bolt rifles etc only need to be stored with a trigger lock on if owned on a collectors licence.
GUN BOY
Member
Morgo, firearms for collections must be permanently deactivated in a way that they will never become usable again. I'm not sure how they do it though…
GUN BOY
Member
My uncle has an old side-by-side 12 guage that he keeps on a mantlepiece and he had to get that deactivated
Well for NSW thats not the case and I'm fairly sure its the same in most other states.
The only firearms that need to be permanently deactivated on a collectors licence are Cat D and machine guns etc.
Cat A,B,C,H (bolt rifles, lever rifles, pump rifles, semi auto and pump action shotguns, semi auto .22 rifles and all handguns) on a collectors licence are only required to be temporarily deactivated and a trigger lock is satisfactory for this.
Radagast
Member
JCisHE: Correct, it is a different state of mind over here. Most people tend to ignore the government and get on with their lives, there is very little in the way of protesting or opposition to government actions, other than from professional rabble rousers in the green/left movement.
The only big protests I can remember in the last 20 years were about the gun laws (90,000 out of a population of five million in the state of Victoria turned up), participating in the war in Iraq (there is no real opposition to participating in Afghanistan, Iraq was seen as imperialism) and to changes to employment laws that were seen as an attack on job security by many. In each instance the government did what it wanted to do anyway.
If you were to do a survey of the general population, you would probably find acceptance of the idea of firearms for self defence with suitable training, but it won't occur because the political class is opposed on both the right, the left and in the media.
The only big protests I can remember in the last 20 years were about the gun laws (90,000 out of a population of five million in the state of Victoria turned up), participating in the war in Iraq (there is no real opposition to participating in Afghanistan, Iraq was seen as imperialism) and to changes to employment laws that were seen as an attack on job security by many. In each instance the government did what it wanted to do anyway.
If you were to do a survey of the general population, you would probably find acceptance of the idea of firearms for self defence with suitable training, but it won't occur because the political class is opposed on both the right, the left and in the media.
Thats different, in some states you can own deactivated lower category firearms like cat A with out any kind of firearms licence. Does your uncle even have a firearms licence?
Radagast
Member
Permanent deactivation means welding a rod into the barrel for it's full length, welding the breech shut, welding the trigger group. Basically it is an irreversible process. This is only required for semi auto & full auto rifles, machine guns and shotguns. Pistol collectors must temporarily deactivate be fitting a trigger lock or removing the firing pin.
Radagast
Member
WA, QLD & SA allow permanently deactivated firearms to be owned without a licence, at least for long arms. Not sure about handguns.
It is only required for semi auto centrefire rifles, there are plenty of collectors that own semi auto .22 rifles and shotguns that are only temporarily deactivated.
QLD used to allow people to own deactivated handguns but I belive they stopped this a while back as people were buying complete new top ends and reactivating them to sell.
Radagast
Member
They didn't need to nuy new top ends. I've been told that Ron Owen and Cleaver were selling Norinco .45s with the slide tack welded to the frame. All you needed was a file to reactivate them. As a result customs seized 2000 Norinco 1911s that Owen had imported. The Howard Govt. banned the importation of any handguns until Queensland changed its laws.
I wasn't aware that Cat C firearms didn't need welding for a collector to own them.
There was an issue with differences in the law between New South Wales and Victoria at one point, with Victoria registering the frames and New South Wales registering the barrels. Of course this led to unscrupulous dealers selling unregistered frames in one state and unregistered parts kits in another. New South Wales now registers frames and barrels.
I wasn't aware that Cat C firearms didn't need welding for a collector to own them.
There was an issue with differences in the law between New South Wales and Victoria at one point, with Victoria registering the frames and New South Wales registering the barrels. Of course this led to unscrupulous dealers selling unregistered frames in one state and unregistered parts kits in another. New South Wales now registers frames and barrels.
CooperThunder
Member
Well...I am also an Australian who own a house in Melbourne (Victoria). I also live here in the US and have a house here too. Guns are not allowed to be brought in to Australia, plain and simple...even a bottle of pepper spray. Not to get into trouble with the authorities at either end, I asked the proper channels once if I can bring a pepper spray with me for protection since I am not allowed to bring my gun in my checked luggage either. The answer was a loud NO!
Since Australia do not have a constitution, unlike the United States, of course we do not have any and/or similar law like our 2nd Amendment either -- the right to bear arms. No matter what anyone says here, it is hard to buy a gun over there, bring it over there, especially use one over there...I am not even allowed to bring a BB gun for over there. It would have been nice...
Since Australia do not have a constitution, unlike the United States, of course we do not have any and/or similar law like our 2nd Amendment either -- the right to bear arms. No matter what anyone says here, it is hard to buy a gun over there, bring it over there, especially use one over there...I am not even allowed to bring a BB gun for over there. It would have been nice...
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked