TonyM
Member
Just bought some Sweet's- safe for barrel or not? I've read conflicting info....I'm using Barnes triple shocks in a new(er) .243 and getting alot of copper build up... Suggestions?
Ammonia based solvents hard on barrel?
- Thread starter TonyM
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I believe the negative reports are from people leaving ammonia based solvents in the bore too long. Follow the instructions. No more than 10 minutes in the bore for any ammonia based solvent is my rule. If you let it sit overnight it will dry quickly and create rust or etch the bore quickly.
I've gone to Gunslick foaming bore cleaner the last few years to avoid these problems and it gets copper out better than Sweets and Barnes CR 10 in my experience. Also no odor and non toxic. Your Sweets will work fine without a problem as long as you follow the directions by leaving it in the bore for no longer than 10 minutes. Be sure to clean it out with an oil or oily solvent like Hoppes before storing.
I've gone to Gunslick foaming bore cleaner the last few years to avoid these problems and it gets copper out better than Sweets and Barnes CR 10 in my experience. Also no odor and non toxic. Your Sweets will work fine without a problem as long as you follow the directions by leaving it in the bore for no longer than 10 minutes. Be sure to clean it out with an oil or oily solvent like Hoppes before storing.
mbartel500
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In addition to the excellent comments above, I would mention that you should try to avoid prolonged ammonia contact with the stock (if it's wood). It may not harm the finish, but I would not risk it. Also, as stated above, there are now less chemically aggressive, but just as effective alternatives on the market.
TonyM
Member
I've got a synthetic stock and am being quite OCD about making sure it only goes in barrel (using patches in magazine, bore guide, etc.). The stuff just seems to work so well....I normally use Butch's, which I've been impressed with, but the Sweet's just seems to take stuff out quicker....
Otto
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Copied from Lilja Barrels website
Q. What does Lilja Rifle Barrels think of the use of bore solvents with ammonia?
A. While we're aware of "bad press" associated with the use of cleaners with ammonia as part of the solution, we have never seen any damage in one of our barrels caused by the use of ammonia. The rumor is that copper-removing cleaners with ammonia will pit and damage the interior surface of a barrel. Ammonia is very effective as a copper remover. We use solvents, such as Butch's Bore Shine, to remove copper during the break-in. We routinely leave Butch's solution in the barrel over night too. Again, I repeat, we have never seen a problem with ammonia in the concentrations found in commercial cleaners, in either our chrome-moly or stainless steel barrels. This includes examination with our borescope.
Q. What does Lilja Rifle Barrels think of the use of bore solvents with ammonia?
A. While we're aware of "bad press" associated with the use of cleaners with ammonia as part of the solution, we have never seen any damage in one of our barrels caused by the use of ammonia. The rumor is that copper-removing cleaners with ammonia will pit and damage the interior surface of a barrel. Ammonia is very effective as a copper remover. We use solvents, such as Butch's Bore Shine, to remove copper during the break-in. We routinely leave Butch's solution in the barrel over night too. Again, I repeat, we have never seen a problem with ammonia in the concentrations found in commercial cleaners, in either our chrome-moly or stainless steel barrels. This includes examination with our borescope.
TonyM
Member
Thanks guys! I'm curious, if both have ammonia, why does the sweets seem to outperform the Butch's? My view is use the Butch's for "routine cleaning" and the Sweets for "field day cleaning." Thoughts?
MMCSRET
Member
Have you talked to Barnes about this? I definitely would, they may have some helpful suggestions. I use Sweet's, but I don't shoot Barnes bullets.
TonyM
Member
I have not talked to Barnes....I suspect they'll tell me to buy their solvent, but it's worth a shot...
_N4Z_
Member
I've cleaned firearms with Sweets7.62 and Barnes CR10 for years without any sign of damage. They work very well, my only issue with those products is the stink of the ammonia.
Recently I discovered a newer product which removes the ammonia from the equation, and actually removes the copper much faster.
KG12 BigBoreCleaner. Best I've used, and the only thing I use now for copper removal. Water based, and it works really well. It gets the copper out in many less passes then the above listed products, in my experience. Only issue with it - it does not easily soak into patches. I'll take that over ammonia smellums' any day.
Recently I discovered a newer product which removes the ammonia from the equation, and actually removes the copper much faster.
KG12 BigBoreCleaner. Best I've used, and the only thing I use now for copper removal. Water based, and it works really well. It gets the copper out in many less passes then the above listed products, in my experience. Only issue with it - it does not easily soak into patches. I'll take that over ammonia smellums' any day.
TonyM
Member
I'll have to give that stuff a shot-- I end up cleaning my guns on the back patio as I have no room in my garage. The wife is not keen on the ammonia smell, and if she thinks it doesn't bother me I suspect I'll be using other ammonia products to clean other less interesting things around the house (i.e. the bathroom).
triggerman770
Member
the directions on Sweet's tell you not to leave in over 15 minutes, so I would go by that.
nalioth
Member
The problem with product instructions today is that they're almost always written by lawyers, and are designed to protect the company from idiots.triggerman770 said:
Unfortunately, for some people, it's hard to tell a 'lawyer-made-up" instruction from one based in reality.
Sweets has a higher concentration of ammonia. It is designed to go after copper. Butches is designed as an all around cleaner, which is does very well. If you clean regularly with Butches, or Shooters Choice for that matter, you will have no need for Sweets unless you have a rough barrel that really copper fouls badly.
Clark
Member
I put Sweets 7.62 [Ammonia with thickener] in a Chrome Moly steel bull barrel over night.
I guess a little splattered on the muzzle. In the morning, there were pits eroded into the muzzle. I could not see pits in the bore, but I do not have a bore scope.
If you have not tried KG12, consider it.
It is not Ammonia based.
Read the KG12 testing.
Just google kg 12 test
I guess a little splattered on the muzzle. In the morning, there were pits eroded into the muzzle. I could not see pits in the bore, but I do not have a bore scope.
If you have not tried KG12, consider it.
It is not Ammonia based.
Read the KG12 testing.
Just google kg 12 test
W.E.G.
Member
Urine has ammonia in it.
Don't use it in a Garand unless you are REAL careful about placement of the nozzle.
Don't use it in a Garand unless you are REAL careful about placement of the nozzle.
Mac's Precision
Member
WEG...
Thanks buddy... I now have coffee out my nose.
That was funny right there!!!
Cheers
Mac.
Thanks buddy... I now have coffee out my nose.
That was funny right there!!!
Cheers
Mac.
mbonner
Member
Do not leave Sweet's in the bore for long, 1 hour max.
Ask me how I know, I did leave the bore of a 308 wet with Sweet's overnight and it etched the bore badly, I had to re-barrel the rifle as it fouled with jacket metal after a couple of rounds.
Mike
Ask me how I know, I did leave the bore of a 308 wet with Sweet's overnight and it etched the bore badly, I had to re-barrel the rifle as it fouled with jacket metal after a couple of rounds.
Mike
Adair
Member
I typically use Butches, but if I am having trouble getting a barrel clean, I will pull out the Sweets. Be sure to run a lightly oiled patch through the bore when it is clean to help avoid rust, and it also will help slow the fouling. A clean, dry bore is not real slick and will tend to cause the first shot to foul more.
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