An Army of many Who Can't Cut It

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I went through Army Basic Training in 1967, and I've talked to many Marines about their Boot Camp training during the same period. The conditions, treatment, and training were quite comparable. At the time, the Army was ginning up the buildup in Vietnam.

When the Army went "all volunteer" and coed, stories about how complete, "mean" and rigorous Basic Training was made it seem like the war time training was worlds away from what's now done.

That makes sense in a way There's no sense in alienating the hearts and minds of tender volunteers who are not expected to experience the rigors of combat during the term of their enlistment. They'll hate the Army and everybody in it, plus they'll poison the well for recruiters who won't be able to fill the ranks.

If it does look like cannon fodder is needed, a few weeks of "old time combat training" can be given to separate those who can't be deployed from those soldiers among them.

The "feel good" army of Gen Shinseki and his black berets is comical in a way to an old soldier. Everytime I see a soft "soldier" wearing one, I'm a bit put off and yet full of pity at the same time. Then I remember they're not going into combat. They have a daytime job, and they're filling slots.

The risk of having a soft, untrained Army during peacetime is that it cannot be hardened and made ready in short order should the need arise. That's balanced against having an army trained to press buttons, configure weapons, and understand the science behind our wonder gizmos. The gizmos are intentded to whack an enemy long before the rigors of slugging it out in combat ever become probable.

It's hard for me to identify with, but "Join the Army for fun and training in highly technical fields" makes a certain amount of sense.

That said, I don't know if this post makes sense to anybody else.... :D
 
My brother just finished basic (Ft. Knox). Some of his observations were pretty astounding. First are the rifles. He said that they had rifles that might have a FN (yeah, FN, go figure) upper and a Colt lower, maybe with an Armalite stock and... well, you get the idea. They were such a mix of parts that none of them really fit together very well, and some of them didn't work. He also said that the rifles were never inspected because they were never allowed access to chemical pits. Most of the rifles looked like they had been "cleaned" by monkeys. He said that he astounded his DS when they were cleaning rifles by taking nearly an hour. His DS asked what was taking so long... his reply: "That is a chromed surface, sir." Evidently nobody had realized this because nobody had been taught how to clean a rifle.

He also had a few rather rude comments about the MILES gear. He said it was the most useless piece of junk anybody had ever developed. Again, half the systems didn't work, and when they did, the scenario certainly did not simulate anything close to what ground combat is like (ie: no noise, smoke, fire, screaming, etc.)

He says that stress cards are a thing of the past (I almost wrecked the car when I heard those words), but they had extensive sensitivity training. Nobody can clean an M-16, but they know how to be sensitive... funny, I thought the point of the army was to be as insensitive as possible... maybe that's why they have weapons...

We'll probably steamroll Iraq (and my brother will be keeping the M198's shooting), even with these shortcomings, but there are some pretty obvious problems that nobody seems to be paying attention to.
 
BH, I agree with you and don't have much negative to say about pre-1975 Army training. Our Artillery unit had a first sergeant who had transferred to the USMCR from the Army in the early 80s. He had served two tours in Vietnam as a Ranger and had some stories to tell. He was only about 5'4", but you could tell you wouldn't want to be cross with him.

I also had a buddy who was Marine Recon, and he talked often about attending specialty schools with Rangers. Makes me think that there is still some real training that goes on, but unfortunately it seems to be more rare.
 
Well, I'm off in three weeks for basic and OCS at Ft. Benning and I'll let yall know firsthand how it is--how about that?

Mark
 
when the drill instructor that you swore was the offspring if the devil suddenly smiles and shakes your hand.

Back in '84, we had a DI that started smiling and everything about four weeks in - At least when he was in our platoon area of the barracks - We'd swept all the tests, etc., for not only our company, but the whole current training unit... He was one happy DI...
 
I was about to say something about that article, but then I saw that Hackworth wrote it. He's a long-standing whiner and general idiot. To bad he never got a clue with all his medals.

:rolleyes:

HINT: he's been saying the same thing over and over since about 1982. An example of his great analytical prowess: he claimed that the M1 tank would get spanked by Russian armor at the end of About Face.

Great call, Hack! :neener:
 
Hackworth a "general idiot"? I think that's a major issue and this is not a private matter but one in need or corporal punishment. Maybe wacking Hack with his most recent work of fiction of what a big cheese he is?

My blood boils with almost Blackhawkesque fury at this man. Waaaah, we didn't do what I wanted in Vietnam so I'm going to take my ball and move to Australia. Then when I come back, I'm going to tell you younger set what a bunch of losers you are.

Hack, screw you. We're just fine, no thanks to your feckless carping. The soft blubber will be safely in the rear like always. The boys on the tip of the spear are just fine. Tell them their job and pass them what they need. BTW, shut up.
 
It's really all just a "we're hacked off that they took away our M14s and gave us something by Mattel" rant...

Frankly, the _average_ soldier doesn't need to be able to shoot all that well. The _average_ soldier doesn't need to be able to crank out 100 pushups at the drop of a hat, run five minute miles, etc...

They _do_ need to be able to move men and material expeditiously. Today, all a rifle - heck, all an INFANTRYMAN - needs to do is provide protection to the fellow with the radio. If the opfors are within small arms shooting range, you've screwed up.
 
The lack of discipline and softened standards of the modern military is directly attributed to the lame leadership of senior commanders. I live with this and see it everyday. As was already stated, the commanders don't see the problem because they are the problem. The senior management work the PC angle to pad their resumes in preparation for nice cushy jobs as civies. So what's the solution? Spelling it out for them on paper doesn't do anything. I know. I've been there done that ...
 
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