An M-870 Recoil Question: 12 vs. 20

[Lone Star]

I had a Remington M-870 in 20 ga., the lightweight model built on a 20 ga. receiver. It had some reliability problems and I sold it, although a warranty station supposedly fixed it. (Needed the money before I had time to try the repaired gun.)

My present 870 is a 12 ga. Nice wood, and I like it. (Wingmaster.)

It is, of course, heavier than a 20 ga.

Does the added weight of the 12 ga. perhaps make recoil roughly the same as a lighter gun in 20 ga.?

I haven't shot the 12 ga, much yet. I am concerned about recoil, as I'm worried about possible retinal detachment. (See my post in the rifle forum.)

If I use mild factory 12 ga. loads, no baby or three-inch mags, might I have no more recoil in my 12 ga. than I encountered in the lighter 20 ga? It was a bother only when three-inch magnums were fired. I normally don't need to fire many magnum shotgun loads...

Thanks for any qualified help that any of you can offer. Partly because I like the 870 and partly because of limited funds, I can't just get a Beretta 20 ga. gas-operated auto, which might be a better answer. I did have one, and it seemed to kick more than expected for a 20 ga. gas auto, probably due to weight issues. This was before I got eye flashes and became worried about recoil. The sole reason why I sold the Beretta was that I needed money in a hurry. It was a great gun, and probably what I'll get again if I go to a 20 ga. But the cheap answer is to keep the M-870 if lighter 12 ga. loads won't kick much more than a lighter 20 ga gun.

Lone Star

 

[Regolith]

The weight of the gun definitely effects felt recoil. I have no idea whether or not an 870 in 20 hits as hard as an 870 in 12. I've only shot the 870 in 12 gauge, so I can't say.

That being said, there are lots of things you can do to mitigate felt recoil. Upgrading your recoil pad, adding weight to the gun via strategically placed lead shot (usually in the stock), as well as high end recoil absorption stocks and accessories can help a lot. Using "managed recoil" loads will also help, though I can say I don't feel a lot of difference between "light target loads" and managed recoil target loads (when using #8 birdshot). It might help for larger loads like buckshot and slugs, though.

By the way, I'm in somewhat of the same situation as you, though not as far down that path. I've been warned by my optometrist that due to the shape of my eyeballs (can't remember if it was due to my myopia or astigmatism) I'm at higher risk of retinal detachment. I haven't yet had to take measures while shooting to prevent retinal detachment, though (thankfully). Good luck with your condition.

 

[gaudio5]

its a 12ga. not a 577 trex relax, get a firm grip and pull the trigger.

 

[mnrivrat]

The weight of the gun, the amount of powder ,and weight of the shot, are the three most determining factors.

Since the 12ga. usualy delivers a heavier shot load, it would give more recoil than the 20ga. ,if the weight of the gun and powder load were the same. Since the weight of the gun is heavier however, you can deliver the extra payload without increasing the felt recoil - or at least the weight helps reduce the recoil.

It will all depend on what loads you want to shoot. As mentioned, there are other ways of recoil reduction, such as the Knoxx (sp?) stock or changing the type & material of the recoil pad. Otherwise you are playing with gun weight vs payload (shell).

 

[redneck2]

Go to one of the reloading or shooting sites that has a recoil calculator and figure it out.

These are going to be ballpark, as a semi-auto will obviously have less felt recoil. You'd have to compare like types of actions and stock design.

FWIW...I have a semi-auto 10 gauge that kicks considerably less than my 870 12 gauge with heavy loads.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Light loads. A one oz target or field load in my 12 gauge 870s defintely kick LESS than the standard 7/8 oz loads do in the 20 gauge 870 here.

The increasingly available 7/8 loads are rough on targets, easy on us.

For HD, the various R/R buck and slug selections are nice, though there is still some recoil.

Adding some weight to your shotguns will also help. A few years ago I tried a couple trash hulls filled with shot and crimped, then placed in the mag tube between two pieces of spring and two extra shell followers. Adding 7 oz or so with the springs slowing the recoil spike really reduced the felt recoil.

HTH...

 

[ilmonster]

What Dave said. Also, if everything else is equal, a 7/8 oz. load in a 20ga. (the std. load) and a similar 7/8 oz. load in a heavier 12 ga. will produce less felt recoil in the heavier 12 ga. As someone else mentioned, physics wise, the three determinants of recoil are ounces of shot (weight, less is better), speed of shot (powder charge, lower is better), and weight of gun (more is better). Making sure the gun fits well, putting on a limbsaver recoil pad, and using 7/8 oz. loads should make it a pleasant gun to shoot. This assumes you are only breaking clays for which 7/8 oz. loads work just fine. Hunting is a different story.

 

[Lone Star]

Well, I DO want to hunt, so how effective are those 7/8th's oz. loads?

I thought I might use one or 1 1/8th oz. loads and try not to use a heavy powder charge, if stores here sell the right combo. (I don't reload.)

I really don't want to do anything to the gun, other than maybe change the factory recoil pad. Who makes the best (most effective) recoil pad that looks about like the factory model? I like its looks.

I'd shoot mainly dove and quail, so won't need to bust pheasants or other tough birds too often. Or, ducks. But I have killed ducks with a .410 as a boy, so I know that a 12 ga. should do that, even with relatively light loads, if they get close enough. I'm not a "skybuster", anyway.

Lone Star

 

[Clemson]

The 1 oz Winlite AA's are great fodder for the 12 gauge, and they will dust a dove (or quail) with authority.

If you are honestly concerned about your retinas, I think you should seriously consider a gas-operated auto. A Remington 1100 or 1187 in either 12 or 20 gauge would be just the ticket. I personally have these guns in both 12 and 20 gauge, and I cannot tell the difference when hunting doves. I normally use the 7/8 oz target loads in the 20 for doves and sporting clays, and that load works wonderfully well.

I also have a 12 gauge 870, and it is a fabulous hunting gun, but it DOES kick a bit more than the autos.

Clemson

 

[41magsnub]

I have sort of an apples to oranges comparison that might help since I was curious about this myself one range trip. I have two shotguns: 870 Wingmaster and a Winchester model 120 20 ga which ought to be pretty close weight wise to an 870 20 ga. Both have similar thickness recoil pads on them.

Using identical factory loads (Federal premium 2 3/4" #6 lead shot which are my upland game loads) except obviously for 20 ga vs 12 ga I though the 20 ga kicked more which has to be due to the weight of the gun. It wasn't that much of a difference though and it is entirely possible I talked myself into that conclusion. the 20 ga fits me differently as well so that might be a contributing factor.

YMMV of course...