And I Thought Montana Was A Gun Friendly State

[Evergreen]

Hello to everyone. I'm currently on vacation here in Glacier National Park and have spent about a week in the grand and beautiful state of Montana. Last week I was in the Bitterroots and now in the Flathead Valley taking trips to Glacier. IT seems nicely stocked gun stores are everywhere, as well as lots of great places to get good meaty food for a decent price. The people seem reserved, but friendly, especially after they see you come into their establishments a few times.

The one thing that gets me, is that I come from the liberal left-wing, socialist state of Oregon, yet our state appears to have much better (or shall I say liberal) gun laws than Montana. I just read here that in Montana it is against the law to conceal carry a handgun into any restaurant that serves alcohol, which is like almost all of them, as well as into any bar. In Oregon, I can carry my handgun concealed into any bar, restaurant or whatever establishment I want, even ones that say "No Guns", without breaking any law or committing a crime. I guess I didn't realize I would become a criminal entering into Montana and doing what I always do, going to a restaurant to have a burger/steak and beer.

Even though I am against it, I understand their mindset of not wanting bar fights with guns, but to ban guns in all restaurants??? That to me, means you might as well leave your gun at home, since when your out and about you want to go out and eat and pulling out your gun and putting it away before you go into a restaurant is not always a viable option. However, I am against local governments trampling on our 2nd Amendment rights and don't believe they should put rules, like no guns in this place or that place. People should be able to carry guns in most any place they choose.

Anyway, I was wondering if any person here can clarify that this is truly the law in the state and what dire consequences you would face if you were caught or were put in an unfortunate SD situation. I, myself, will no longer go to restaurants with alcohol while in MOntana as I don't support anti-RKBA laws.

I guess I thought coming to Montana I would have more freedom. Everything about the place, seems to emanate freedom and liberty. But, perhaps, I spent too much time in small towns where most people think like that and didn't realize that Montana's cities may be more anti-gun/leftist. Missoula and Whitefish seem like liberal Oregon towns to me. Quite a bit different from what I experienced in the Bitterroot Valley.

One thing I do respect is that Montana does recognize my Oregon CHL. However, I am saddened that an Oregon CHL grants you more freedom in Oregon, than a Montana CHL grants you in Montana.

 

[Beentown]

Many States have or have had this same law. I am in Ohio and we have re-done the laws so that as long as you aren't consuming then you are ok. It doesn't take affect until September.

We are fortunate to have Concealed Carry. Now that we do we can further our cause a bit at a time. First it was to get the general public comfortable with it. Now we are slowly making the laws more user friendly. I.E. car/restaurant carry. I am sure some citizens of Montana are trying to change it as I type.

Beentown

 

[velojym]

That's kinda sad in a lot of ways, especially since an evildoer will ignore the sign on the door anyway. But, what are they gonna do, post TSA agents with their hardware?

I think it should be the decision of the property owner. If a restaurant owner wants to ensure that his law-abiding customers are disarmed, then so be it (Ya won't see me there, though), and heck... some may want to offer a discount for responsible carriers who come in. Let's see which place gets robbed first.

 

[FourTeeFive]

Oregon is one of the most pro-gun states in the Union.

 

[Old krow]

Just out of curiosity, do the laws in Montana prohibit open carry in the same establishments?

 

[Black Knight]

Up until a year ago in Virginia you could not carry concealed in a place that sells alcohol for on premises consumption but you could open carry. Now you can carry concealed as long as you don't drink alcohol. The odd thing is that there doesn't seem to be this restriction if you are open carrying. Not being a drinker it does bother me either way. FWIW while we were trying to get the law changed all the antis made all the typical claims of shoot outs and blood in the streets. It is rather odd that the shootings at such establishments decreased the first year since there was supposed to be blood in the streets.

 

[Ultravox]

The MT code says:

(c) a room in which alcoholic beverages are sold, dispensed, and consumed under a license issued under Title 16 for the sale of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/45/8/45-8-328.htm

Title 16 is the section of the code that deals with Alcohol and Tobacco sales. So it's pretty vague, but my reading is that the OP is correct, you can't carry where alcohol is sold. Bar or restaurant.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Just tuck your shirt in behind your gun and open carry, for goodness sake. Trust me, the whole restaurant won't start shooting at you. It's only illegal to carry a CONCEALED gun, there is nothing that prohibits open carry.

 

[Cosmoline]

I suspect this has more to do with state liquor laws and traditions than firearm laws. Oregon has much more liberal laws when it comes to the sale of alcohol than most states. You can get beer and wine in the grocery store for example. The whole attitude towards alcohol is different. When you go to a place like Alaska or Wyoming there's a much deeper problem with alcohol abuse and a certain segment of the population (plus a certain segment of state legislators) equate any booze with setting the mattress on fire and shooting holes in the ceiling.

 

[velojym]

It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad, the way so many people squeal and cry when they see an open pistol. I'd love to grab 'em by the shoulders and ask 'em how many criminals walk around calmly in the open with visible arms, but I don't think it'd do any good.

They'll just recall all the movies in which a big band of bad guys can go openly armed because they've taken over the town... basically becoming a government.

 

[Evergreen]

Sorry, but I don't want to open carry in a restaurant here.. I don't see anyone else doing it, and considering places like Whitefish, are liberal tourist towns, I most likely would be finishing my meal in a squad car. I want to relax and enjoy my vacation and not spend the time trying to cause a stir so I can promote my freedoms. It is a sad world.

If it was about alcohol, I would reluctantly say fine, then ban it in bars. Even though I am against this as well. But to say that guns are banned anywhere alcohol is served, is just another way for anti-RKBA people to get their way. They have succeeded in Montana, since now you are a criminal the moment you bring your gun into any establishment that serves alcohol, which can even expand probably to hotels, since many serve alcohol on their premises and alcohol is consumed. I might as well just leave my gun at home, since I most likely will step into an establishment if I am out travelling where alcohol is consumed.

I don't care what justification they want to make, people should not have their 2nd Amendment rights infringed and our corrupt politicians have found a way to succeed in that. I'm very happy I was able to carry my firearm with me in the National Parks yesterday. That is a step in the right direction. However, there is still a lot of work that needs to be done.

And, FYI, Oregon's liquor laws are more strict than some states. In California you can buy any kind of booze you want in any store. In Oregon you can only get liquor in a state licensed liquor store. However, this does not translate into gun laws, where California is much stricter than Oregon, or almost any other state, for that matter. I was not aware that there was states, besides Utah, that banned the purchase of beer from grocery stores. I wonder if alcoholism or religious views are the real reason behind Wyoming's strict anti-alcohol legislation. Alcoholism, from what I know, is a probably everywhere.

Anyway, I just hiked the Swiftcurrent Pass lookout yesterday and got to see Glacier National Park from what I thought was heaven. Seriously, the scenery around me was unreal and not like being on Earth, but some fantasy world. I got to see grizzly bear and a moose on the trail in the last few days. Wow, Montana, has blown my mind away. I wish I could live here. But these draconian gun laws need to change, in this so-called "Free State". Sorry. but I just cannot live in a place where I am a criminal for wanting to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights while eating, even having a beer. I was told America was a "Free Country", well Oregon seems to be living more up to this title than Montana. Very sad, for such a beautiful state with so many freedom loving individuals.

 

[General Geoff]

Sorry, but I don't want to open carry in a restaurant here.. I don't see anyone else doing it, and considering places like Whitefish, are liberal tourist towns, I most likely would be finishing my meal in a squad car. I want to relax and enjoy my vacation and not spend the time trying to cause a stir so I can promote my freedoms. It is a sad world.

You make open carry out to be a much bigger deal than it really is; don't knock it till you try it. I sincerely doubt any Montana cop will hassle you just for carrying openly, especially if that's the only legal way to carry in said establishment.

 

[25cschaefer]

I second Navylcdr, for the time being until the law is changed, just untuck like you do in a bank. I live in Arlee and work in Missoula and do it all the time, you haven't seen anyone else do it because it is the middle of the tourist season in a super rich hippifide tourist town. I know a guy who walks around with a lightened 45 long colt, 10inch bowie knife, Taser, and bear spray and has never had an issue.

 

[harrygunner]

Western Montana has amazing natural scenery, but the laws seem out of step with its advertised culture.

Another one that confuses me, banks are off limits. That's where the money is. I figure a BG seeing people leaving banks might think they should be robbed.

It's been said the ability to hold conflicting, mutually exclusive concepts simultaneously is necessary for intelligence. So the ability of a legislator to simultaneously believe a CCW holder is not a danger in residential areas, malls or downtown, but will become a liability in a bank is a sign of their special intelligence.

My constant state of confusion continues with schools being off limits. That's where our most precious resources are, our children.

I can carry in banks, restaurants and schools with a CCW permit here in wimpy California. I recall sitting around the table at a six grade evening "sock hop" with several other fathers. A school shooting was in the news, so fathers showed up to be there for their children. If someone tried to hurt them, I wouldn't be standing around wringing my hands or simply being a good witness. A lot of states leave you with only those options.

 

[gearchecker]

I don't think there is a Montana cop that would even give you a second look if you're open carrying. I live over in North Idaho and spend quite a bit of time in Montana on a regular basis. Open carry is pretty common, and my wife & I always carry when we're over there. We carry concealed when we can, and open carry when we must The laws are there to protect you as much as anybody else. Montana and Wyoming are still a bit of the old west. Alcohol consumption and guns don't get along very well, It was a problem there, and the legislators tightened up their laws to protect the citizenry. Open carry so common it's rarely even noticed. Unless you draw attention to yourself nobody there will care.
Get a good holster with retention and you're good to go. Most of the people in Montana are there to be left alone and live their own lives. They're not too worried about the way you live yours.
Not to worry,
~gearchecker~

 

[Danb1215]

I don't think there is a Montana cop that would even give you a second look if you're open carrying. I live over in North Idaho and spend quite a bit of time in Montana on a regular basis. Open carry is pretty common, and my wife & I always carry when we're over there. We carry concealed when we can, and open carry when we must The laws are there to protect you as much as anybody else. Montana and Wyoming are still a bit of the old west. Alcohol consumption and guns don't get along very well, It was a problem there, and the legislators tightened up their laws to protect the citizenry. Open carry so common it's rarely even noticed. Unless you draw attention to yourself nobody there will care.
Get a good holster with retention and you're good to go. Most of the people in Montana are there to be left alone and live their own lives. They're not too worried about the way you live yours.
Not to worry,
~gearchecker~

I'm sorry, concealed carry where alcohol served = dangerous, but open carry where alcohol served = fine? Can you go into more detail about how this off limits place law (or any other) protects anyone?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Sorry, but I don't want to open carry in a restaurant here.. I don't see anyone else doing it, and considering places like Whitefish, are liberal tourist towns, I most likely would be finishing my meal in a squad car. I want to relax and enjoy my vacation and not spend the time trying to cause a stir so I can promote my freedoms. It is a sad world.

Sorry, but I just don't see any basis for a complaint. The only thing keeping you from carrying a gun is your own decision.

 

[JTMcC]

Cosmoline says:
"I suspect this has more to do with state liquor laws and traditions than firearm laws. Oregon has much more liberal laws when it comes to the sale of alcohol than most states. You can get beer and wine in the grocery store for example. The whole attitude towards alcohol is different. When you go to a place like Alaska or Wyoming there's a much deeper problem with alcohol abuse and a certain segment of the population (plus a certain segment of state legislators) equate any booze with setting the mattress on fire and shooting holes in the ceiling".


I say:
In Arizona you can buy beer, wine, whisky, rum, gin whatever you please, in grocery stores. I spent several months in Wyoming last year and the grocery store had a liquer store inside (Gillette Albertsons). Beer and wine in a grocery store isn't that uncommon in modern day USA.
For work I traveled in 25 states last year, saw lot's of alchohol for sale in supermarkets.



Beentown says


"We are fortunate to have Concealed Carry".


I say:
Fortunate to regain only a small portion of your rights? With elected idiots putting their favorite restrictions on that small sliver?
Maybe it's progress (considering what American citizens have allowed to happen over the decades) but I wouldn't consider it "fortunate".

JTM

 

[hermannr]

I have never had a problem in Montana or Idaho (I live in North Central WA), but then that probably is because I only conceal when I have a winter coat on.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with OC (unless you are in TX or some place like that). What is the problem...are you ashamed you carry at all> Yes I do have a CPL,,,for winter

 

[NavyLCDR]

I have never had a problem in Montana or Idaho (I live in North Central WA), but then that probably is because I only conceal when I have a winter coat on.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with OC (unless you are in TX or some place like that). What is the problem...are you ashamed you carry at all> Yes I do have a CPL,,,for winter

Some "pro-gun" folks have succumbed to the propaganda of the anti-gun groups and media that somehow the gun is, by itself, different than any other inanimate object such as a cell phone or gerber/leatherman multi-tool. Most people would have no problem wearing a cell phone or muti-tool on their belt, but somehow a gun - just a piece of metal by itself, is somehow different. My gun isn't going to hurt anyone other than a criminal who threatens myself or my family, or possibly a criminal that threatens a complete stranger under certain conditions.

 

[outerlimit]

One thing you got to remember about the upper midwest. While most of the gun laws are pretty decent, the attitude of the law towards concealed carriers is very naive. The restrictions on ccw are excessive because old, out of touch cooters makes the laws up here.

 

[El Tejon]

Oregon is one of the most pro-gun states in the Union.

Maybe the middle of the pack but that's about it.

If it were that Oregon was pro-gun then people from outside of Oregon could carry there. I cannot stand going to Portland knowing that I cannot carry there. Rest of Oregon is not as bad as I can open carry.

just read here that in Montana it is against the law to conceal carry a handgun into any restaurant that serves alcohol,

So, what's the problem, just open carry then.

 

[gutshot]

Often, there are trade offs when laws are debated and passed. It is quite possible it was necessary to prohibit concealed carry in bars to get enough votes to pass the law. Hopefully, these things can be addressed one at a time in the future. I think the OP should concentrate on getting some of the oppressive gun laws in Oregon changed and let the good people of Montana decide how to run Montana. They have done a pretty good job of it so far. The Brady Campaign gives Oregon a score of 17 and Montana a score of 2. Which do you think is the most gun friendly?

http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/MT/

 

[outerlimit]

gutshot, there's a lot of bad laws up here. Get informed. The Brady sight does not inform an individual. And the large text doesn't make you seem more important.

 

[JellyJar]

Go to handgunlaw.us and download the pdf for Montana. At the bottom they say you can carry in restaurants like Red Lobster and such as long as you don't sit at the bar.

I would just ask a local LEO first though just to be on the safe side.

Also, the handgunlaw.us pdf doesn't say anything about open carry. Is Montana an open carry state and if so can you OC your gun in bars and restaurants?