And now... the "community gun"

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ZeSpectre

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'Neighborhood' Gun Tied to Girl's Death


'Everyone in the Neighborhood Uses That Gun,' Suspect Allegedly Says
By SCOTT MICHELS
June 17, 2008

A teenager is expected to plead not guilty today to charges that he shot and killed a 10-year-old girl with a "community gun" that he allegedly claims was shared by "everyone in the neighborhood."

Kathina Thomas was killed late last month after a stray bullet, allegedly fired by 15-year-old Jermayne Timmons, struck her in the back. The crime has shocked the city of Albany and prompted law enforcement to ramp up a crackdown on so-called community guns — weapons that are shared among alleged gang members.

Law enforcement officials say gangs across the country stash and share weapons, often in abandoned buildings, in an attempt to circumvent gun control laws and avoid being caught with a gun that has been tied to a crime.

"If the area is somewhat controlled by a gang group, they will often have weapons in the area. It's there in close proximity and if trouble does break out someone can get to it," said Andrew Grascia, a longtime gang investigator and president of the New York Gang Investigator's Association.

"It shows how dangerous a single firearm can be. When you have multiple people who have access to it, it broadens its reach on the street," he said.

According to a statement Timmons gave police, he was riding his bike with his friends on May 29 when he fired a shot at a group of teenagers after he thought he saw one of them pull a gun. Police believe the bullet hit and killed Kathina Thomas.

Afterwards, Timmons put the gun in a garbage can outside the Ida Yarborough Houses because "everyone in the neighborhood uses that gun and that's where we keep it," Timmons allegedly told police.

Timmons was charged as an adult with second-degree murder. His attorney said he would plead not guilty at his arraignment today, but declined to comment further.

Timmons' mother did not return a phone message, but in an interview with the Albany Times Union she disputed that her son was a gang member.

"That's all hearsay at this point," Mosetta Timmons told the paper. "He was an average teenager, with good days and bad days."

Kathina's death has galvanized the city. Hundreds, including the mayor and district attorney, mourned at her funeral.

"It's brought us together and everyone in the community, it seems, has come together to say that enough is enough," said the Rev. Edward Smart, pastor of the AME Zion church.

It has also focused attention on so-called community guns. As law enforcement has made obtaining and transporting guns more difficult, gangs have sought new ways to make weapons available to large groups of people, said Det. Bruce Ferrell of the Omaha Police Gang Intelligence Unit.

Community guns also help criminals avoid being caught with a weapon, he said.

"In the 1980s and early 1990s, they were throwing those guns in the river. But they aren't doing that anymore," Ferrell said.

"Before we tended to believe that a lot of guns were being stolen. In our area, we have found that not to be the truth," he said. "A lot of times they pass it around to other gang members or may trade it for drugs. They don't discard them as often as they used to."

The problem of community guns is not limited to Albany. Investigators in Suffolk County, N.Y., recently recovered a gun that has been linked to the execution-style murders of three students in a Newark, N.J., schoolyard and may have been involved in at least two other out-of-state murders. The Suffolk County district attorney's office believes the gun may have moved to New York through a gang network that has a custom of recycling guns used in violent crimes.

Within the last year, police in cities such as Cleveland, Trenton, Philadelphia and Boston have found troves of weapons in abandoned buildings that they believe were shared among criminals.

To combat community weapons, the Albany County district attorney is asking owners of all vacant lots and buildings — attractive locations for shared guns — in the city to give police permission to search their property at any time.

Of the 1,300 requests, so far 320 property owners have agreed and 10 have refused, according to the district attorney's office. John Fenimore, president of the Capital District Association of Rental Property Owners, said the request from the district attorney's office was "too broad" and that he would not sign it.
 
"It shows how dangerous a single firearm can be. When you have multiple people who have access to it, it broadens its reach on the street," he said.

Typical. While a firearm can be a dangerous implement, in this case, it's the practice that's dangerous. A tool requires a user, eh?

I'd say that this is a dangerous neighborhood due to what is apparently the majority of people living there. It it weren't a gun, it's be something else I'm sure. Community knives? Bats? Claw hammers?


-T.
 
Thats just stupid,
Everyone in the community used it????
They kept it in a garbage can???

The problem here isn't guns, its stupid people. That is a big lesson our society needs to learn. Its like curly from the three always said, "I am a victim of circumstances." Which was a critique of society in my honest opinion. It is not the situation that is the problem as it is the individuals. In this case its a group of stupid people and the situation caused by them.
Community gun, that is absurd!
 
This is a clear issue of the low income culture. I have read a bunch of reports articles and studdies on economic cultures. Basicaly with low income to poverty groups they share just about everything as a comunity item. For example several individuals share cars bikes toys and just about everything else. There develops a lack of ownership and therefore a lack of care and respect for things. I could go on for a long time on this whole issue but bottom line is that its no real surprise to hear about community guns.
 
Eric F said:
This is a clear issue of the low income culture. I have read a bunch of reports articles and studdies on economic cultures. Basicaly with low income to poverty groups they share just about everything as a comunity item. For example several individuals share cars bikes toys and just about everything else. There develops a lack of ownership and therefore a lack of care and respect for things. I could go on for a long time on this whole issue but bottom line is that its no real surprise to hear about community guns.

The definition of communism.

See that kids? Communism killed that little girl!

:D ;)

commies-arent-cool.gif


-T.
 
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It's time we had some address the fundamental issue at hand.

If there were no communities, there would be no community guns. We clearly need to call for a ban on communities.
 
We clearly need to call for a ban on communities.
Fine with me I will gladly take my square mile with stream and log cabin oh yeah no phone either!
 
Basicaly with low income to poverty groups they share just about everything as a comunity item. For example several individuals share cars bikes toys and just about everything else.

When I was at AIT, we had a car. I think someone, somewhere, owned it. Maybe. There was no back glass, the keys stayed in it, and if you used it, you put gas in it and checked the oil. Maybe threw a few bucks toward taking care of it if it needed something.

Gun shop I used to go to would have folks coming in wanting to buy six bullets...
 
Gun shop I used to go to would have folks coming in wanting to buy six bullets...
What a novel idea, selling a box of ammo by individual bullets, kinda like these small hood-marts selling cigaretts individually you might be onto something here!
 
The situation isn't all that unusual. I work in gang-land myself. The guns carried by 'bangers never seem to be legally owned (lets face it, a lot of these guys have felony cases by the age of 15).

The "smart" bangers know better than to be caught carrying, so they'll stash guns in the holes in walls of abandoned houses, in bushes, or wherever. Often times when we approach a gang party in public park areas we'll find guns stashed in bushes, trees, under cars, etc (in short, no one wants to be caught with the gun in their hand, and they'll scatter when we arrive... usually doubling back later to retrieve the gun).

So, this isn't a unique issue to that town, but is generally issolated to areas with a lot of gang activity... deep in the 'hood.

But, the guns still aren't the problem... The problem is the sadistic little turds who don't have any problems using the guns against innocent citizens, etc.

Guns will never disappear in the United States, even if they were all outlawed today. I can't say if the World would have been better off if guns were never created, but the fact is that they were created (just like knives, bombs, spears, cars, and a host of other items that man has developed for one reason or another)... That horse has already left the barn!

I still speculate that the availability of guns is a good thing (with a gun my wife can defend herself against a larger attacker, whether they are armed or unarmed. without a gun she might not be able to protect herself against some attackers). Regardless, we can't turn back time and un-invent something, so we might as well collectively embrace the advantage that a gun can provide the rest of us against an attacker!


I should add that the weapon of choice in the 'hood where I work has changed a number of times. A couple of years back we were getting a ton of stabbings. Last year it was a bunch of shootings. This season, thus far, has been heavily dominated by robberies and assaults that are charecterized by the victims being beaten in the head with rocks/bricks... So, is there any argument that would suggest that getting rid of guns would reduce violent crimes? I think not! But I could argue that any one of the citizens who were attacked could have stopped a brick-wielding attacker if they were armed!


Where there is a sadistic bastard with a will, there is a way. Prepare to have the will to deal with that person.
 
question if I found a community gun would it be wrong to take it and hand it in?
 
If I "Found" a gun in a bush, I'd definitely call the police and report its whereabouts but I don't think I'd stick around or touch it. Possession is 9/10ths of the LAW. Who's to say they won't try you if they find that it's been used in a Murder.
 
"To combat community weapons, the Albany County district attorney is asking owners of all vacant lots and buildings — attractive locations for shared guns — in the city to give police permission to search their property at any time."

This is exactly why I'm leaving Albany and New York State just as soon as I'm done with grad school! Absolutely unbelievable...
 
I had taken a nap about two hours ago and when I got up, I signed on. I thought I had slept for a year and Heller did not go our way and the SCOTUS had deemed RKBA to be a collective right and this was the result--community guns. I am fully awake now though.
 
John828 said:
...SCOTUS had deemed RKBA to be a collective right and this was the result--community guns.

Now that's an interesting angle. If the 2A is deemed "collective", does that mean I can still buy and own guns so long as I share them?

:neener:


-T.
 
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