Ex-Gang Members Gunned Down In L.A.

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David

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Yep, there is no need for law abiding California citizens to have the right to a CCW Permit.

Yeah, right.

Here is the link to the story:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&e=5&u=/ap/20040806/ap_on_re_us/gang_murders

LA Gang Killings Strike at Neutral Group

Fri Aug 6,10:08 AM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!

By LAURA WIDES, Associated Press Writer

LOS ANGELES - When gang members want out of the lifestyle, they can turn to Homeboy Industries, where even convicted felons can count on finding work and someone to talk to. A Homeboy shirt once was likened to a Red Cross armband in a war zone: Donning it meant safe passage in a gang-gripped community. No longer.

In the past six weeks, two members of the group's graffiti removal crew have been gunned down on the job.

"Homeboys had this image of protection and respect, and that's ending," said Patricia Zarate, who owns a cafe up the street from the organization. "They were respected even on the street. If they aren't safe, then nobody is."

Police say Homeboy Industries is not a specific target, but the killings are emblematic of the increased terror that gangs have spread in communities across Los Angeles.

While violent crime is down 15 percent citywide, gang killings have risen more than 20 percent this year. The upsurge has been blamed on a variety of factors, including the release of gang leaders who have finished prison terms and may be igniting power struggles and settling old scores.


The Rev. Gregory Boyle, a Roman Catholic priest who runs the Homeboy program for former gang members, said this week he would temporarily suspend its anti-graffiti efforts. He met Thursday with law enforcement officers to discuss ways to reduce the violence.

"It's just knocked the wind out of me," Boyle said of Tuesday's shooting of 25-year-old Arturo Casas outside the group's offices in Boyle Heights, east of downtown.

Casas was sitting at a stoplight in a Homeboy truck about noon, on his way to erase graffiti, when a man shot him repeatedly, police said. The killing came hours before East Los Angeles' annual anti-crime march.

On June 24, Homeboy worker Rafael Gomez, 35, was shot and killed while removing graffiti early in the morning.

No arrests have been made. Authorities say the killings are not related, but the motives remain unclear.

The nonprofit employs many recently released felons, and Boyle acknowledged that the road out of gang life is not always a smooth one.

"It's like (drug) recovery," Boyle said. "You get people coming here at very different stages."

Some observers worry about a return to the violence of the late '80s and '90s, when gang killings soared. The numbers eventually dropped nationwide, and gang membership — estimated at about 48,000 citywide — remains significantly lower than in past years.

Joe Hicks, former head of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference's Southern California chapter, said the murder rate remains high "in places like Boyle Heights and Watts and other black and brown communities."

Zarate says she fears the killers are becoming more brazen. She noted that less than a month ago, a man was fatally shot at 11 a.m. in a nearby park.

Police Chief William Bratton, lauded for cleaning up the streets while he was a New York police commissioner, has made anti-gang efforts a priority but said he is hampered by a lack of officers.

"There's not enough cops," Bratton said Thursday. "I don't have what I had in New York. I had enough cops to (cover) the whole city all at the same time."

Bratton said the best he could do last year in Los Angeles was to add 100 officers to stations in the most violent areas. He previously has said he would like the LAPD (news - web sites) to have another 1,500 officers.

Hicks said he believes it is the job of residents to take more of a stand against gangs.

"Where is the public outrage?" asked Hicks, who was head of the city's Human Relations Commission under former Mayor Richard Riordan.

"When the police officer is viewed on TV beating a suspect, we have protests and national civil rights leaders flying into the city," he said, referring to the videotaped beating of a suspected car thief by LAPD officers in June. "Yet these heart-rending killings are going on with regularity and there seems to be no resistance."

Hicks said he also believes those who don't live in the most dangerous neighborhoods are foolishly turning a blind eye.

"Just because you live behind fancy gates doesn't mean you are secure from violence," he said.

Some neighborhood groups are taking steps.

In Boyle Heights, the Dolores Mission has lobbied the city to close off alleys known for gang activity, add more street lights and put more officers on the streets.

Miguel Ramos, 22, is a former gang member who spent seven years behind bars for a carjacking. Now Homeboy's office manager, Ramos worries about the effect the killings of employees will have on efforts to help others turn around their lives.

"I had chills up and down my body," said Ramos, who now works with police and community leaders. "It's a reality check once again right there in my face. It could happen to anybody, at any time."
******
:rolleyes: :uhoh: :rolleyes:
 
I find it appalling when someone tells the locals to take a stand while denying them the tools to fight back.

I used to laugh when I'd read about proposals to arm the good guys in a gang-infested neighborhood with mil-surp M-16s.

I don't laugh any more.
 
"Yet these heart-rending killings are going on with regularity and there seems to be no resistance."

While out of the other side of your mouth, you espouse more and more laws to deny them the means to resist. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
 
I watch Trauma on Cable

And a lot of the shooting are gang related. I really don't lose any sleep when I read or see something in my City about a gang shooting. I feel this is the life and death they choose.;)
 
Cerberus posts:
And a lot of the shooting are gang related. I really don't lose any sleep when I read or see something in my City about a gang shooting. I feel this is the life and death they choose.
------------------

Understood. Unfortunately, innocents are often hurt in these activities.

I do live in one of those neighborhoods (not for much longer), and
have witnessed a driveby. Most of my neighbors are Mexican, and
we do have several "gang familes" living around us. I made "friends"
with one of the gangbangers and am friends with many of the friendly neighbors. They found a dead guy in a car in the alley last month.

--------------from original posted article:
When the police officer is viewed on TV beating a suspect, we have protests and national civil rights leaders flying into the city," he said, referring to the videotaped beating of a suspected car thief by LAPD officers in June. "Yet these heart-rending killings are going on with regularity and there seems to be no resistance."
---------------------
As far as why people are not doing much about this sort of thing - apathy and fear. The cops don't come around much, they certainly are not there
when any crime is going on, they take way too long when you call them. Law abiding citizens are not walking the streets armed (though you can bet some of my neighbors are very well armed in their homes).
We do look out for each other though.


cheers, ab
 
what they did with their lives after the gangs is noble ,but i have no sympathy. what kind of things did they do when they were gangbangers? how many innocent people did they hurt or kill, or other gangbangers for that manner? i will probably get flack for this but i have seen gangs my whole life and those that belong dont have any respect for life or anybody else.
 
How is "violent crime down 15%" if "gang-related killing are up 20%"? Are gang-related killing not considered violent crimes in LA?
And how/why would anyone in any of these neighborhoods even think about getting involved when everyone in the city government has made it clear that none of the neighborhood residents are worthy of owning the means of protecting themselves or their neighborhood? :banghead:

If it was me I'd be giving the gangbangers the addresses of the elite and their $$$$$$$ houses. Especially the chief and the mayor/council members.
 
Simple theory

0007, my thoughts on how this can happen.
Violent crime: Assault, rape, muggings, car jackings, robbery, battery, all these and more count as violent crime along with murder. For each occurance reported to police, add one. A drunk who punches another drunk in the bar counts as much as a murder.
Murder tends to be the lowest percentage of 'violent crime' so that if you generally reduce the rest of the crimes, you can still have an increase in this, while still decreasing the violent crime statistics.

And, despite the Homebody killings, I wonder what % of the murders are gang vs. gang? I'm sure a busy little gang-banger could generate several violent crimes a day, such that the one more for his murder could actually go a long way to reducing the VC statistics.
 
About 15 years ago in Los Angeles, popular thinking was gang ridden communities would be and would feel safer if they had community justice centers with police stations, courts, and jails. The residents could on a day to day basis see their community justice center working to make their neighborhoods safer.

I thought they would be better served with community fortresses, with the good people on the inside and the animals on the outside.

Pilgrim
 
"When the police officer is viewed on TV beating a suspect, we have protests and national civil rights leaders flying into the city," he said, referring to the videotaped beating of a suspected car thief by LAPD officers in June. "Yet these heart-rending killings are going on with regularity and there seems to be no resistance."

Of course there is no resistance - these killings are the same as toilet cleaning. We should be supplying them with ammo. I have no sympathy when a gang banger or an ex-gang banger gets gunned down, they make choices at some point in their lives that led to that end. Good riddance to this scum.
 
In the late 60's in North Chicago where the Navy Training center is there was a problem with local merchants (mostly bars) and con men ripping off sailors.

For two nights the navy unofficially held what was called a dungaree party (kinda like a blanket party but on a community scale). The sailors hit N. Chicago wearing dungarees (some did - some were in civies). The only rule was you couldn't kill anyone. The more notorious bars were basically destroyed and not a few of the con men ended up in hospitals.

Problem solved.

I suspect the cops (or even a semi-organized mob of citizens) could do the same thing in LA if they really wanted to. Is there a possibility that some innocents might be harmed in the process? YES! Wanna get rid of the gangs then there will be a price to pay.

My 74 year old uncle's solution. Just put an M2 up on the roof of a medium tall building every other block or so and each morning at sunrise just rip off a 50 or so round burst. He claims that'd get the scums attention.
 
"When the police officer is viewed on TV beating a suspect, we have protests and national civil rights leaders flying into the city," he said, referring to the videotaped beating of a suspected car thief by LAPD officers in June. "Yet these heart-rending killings are going on with regularity and there seems to be no resistance."

Follow the money. If these so called "civil rights leaders" raise a stink about black on black beatings, no money or attention. Now if it is a white cop beating a black criminal, "white guilt" and "black anger" will send money to the "civil rights leaders" organization's. Economics 101.


Bill Cosby has been trying to get the message out, but I'm afraid it has been falling on deaf ears. The truth hurts.
 
I don't understand why many government officials do not strongly support the right of law abiding citizens to obtain CCW permits.

:confused: :eek: :confused:

To me, this is just common sense!
 
this is news??

did homeboys really think they were wearing "superman" capes...and the gangies said.."hey man, we cant shoot that guy, the bullets will just bounce off.."

when the mayor of los angeles declared "los angeles is a mexican city.." (many gangies are illegal immigrants) the rules..if there are any..went south .. so to speak.

it is a war..with a body count worthy to be called such..some parts of los angeles have "injunctions" against the gangs..of course the ACLU says this violates the gangs civil rights..that it is racist etc..

city govt and the police elite roll over for any "minority" that will sue them and call them racist if they "enforce" the law

the chief of police is a dog with a loud bark...no bite...there is this "special order 40" that basically states..you cannot ask anyone their immigration status..of course if you could and deport them you would cut down on the gangs members alot..the chief does NOT want to remove special order40..

also los angeles is a "sanctuary city" so any criminal from any country is welcome to ply their trade here..

I'm fully aware the police are not the answer and never will be...im well protected at home...but when i leave and I'm out in the street...im a potential sacrifice to political correctness gone insane

wolf
 
It's been said you can never relly leave a gang. Seems that may be the case according to this story.

1. LE and the justice system is there to control the law abiding because, by definition, the law abiding are controllable by laws. The POV that LE is there to protect "society" is the justicification of the existance of armed police forces in our midst but also a powerful escape clause as LE have no responsibility for or to you or me as individuals.

2. LE and the criminal justice system is not there to control the law breakers. They may tangle but that is of no consequence in the bigger scheme of things. Look at the case histories of just a few repeat offenders and you will see what I mean. And that's just the part we know about!

I read some comments by a British police officer last week referring to the fact that Brit LE no longer enforces law or really try to stop crime. Brit LE is there to collect evidence after the fact and talk to the victims...if they can talk.

Prehaps LE in many parts of Cali are about there. The police know where the gangs are and in many cases who belongs to the gang(s). Something could be done but it is not being done because of 1 and 2 above.

S-
 
A number of the nastier gangs in the 'hood (and in prison) operate on the "blood in, blood out" principle - you have to kill to get in, and you can't get out unless you're dead, either from natural causes, or killed by others, or killed by your own gang for trying to leave. The Bureau of Prisons has a "gang program" where those who want to leave gangs can be de-tattooed, given a false identity, and moved to prisons where no-one knows them, in exchange for giving up all they know about their former gang and its members - sort of a gang-banger Witness Protection program. This is often the only way that a gangsta on the inside can leave his gang and stay alive... :uhoh:
 
I have no sympathy when a gang banger or an ex-gang banger gets gunned down, they make choices at some point in their lives that led to that end. Good riddance to this scum.

Bah. People can turn their lives around, don't you think?

Following your line of reasoning, you'd be patting yourself on the back if you shot me.
 
Muzzleflash,

I agree, people should be able to turn themselves around. While I will admit that I think that a former gang member, or any criminal, should be viewed with suspicion for a period of time after their reform(call it probation) just in case.


As was stated in the article, they think this was occuring because some of the more extreme gang leaders were getting out of prison and raising old issues.

Heck, there are parallels between gang society and feudal/tribal societies. Ancient societies tended to have types of non-members who were more or less safe, but as with anything, this could quickly change with little warning.
 
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