Another 6.5 CM victim

[Garandimal]

Suggest the 125 gr. Nosler Partition load.

Performance is ~ that of the 130 gr. .270 Win. (w/o the recoil)

Should be a Deer hammer.




GR

 

[Newtosavage]

Suggest the 125 gr. Nosler Partition load.

Performance is ~ to the 130 gr. .270 Win. (w/o the recoil)

Should be a Deer hammer.




GR

I am certain you are right, that the 125 grain partition would be a great deer load. But I have never found the SST lacking in its accuracy or effectiveness on game. And they are half the price. With the amount of shooting I do, I'll be reaching for the SST's, unless I make the decision to go copper, to "get the lead out" so to speak.

 

[Garandimal]

I am certain you are right, that the 125 grain partition would be a great deer load. But I have never found the SST lacking in its accuracy or effectiveness on game. And they are half the price. With the amount of shooting I do, I'll be reaching for the SST's, unless I make the decision to go copper, to "get the lead out" so to speak.

HDY offers both the 123 gr. and 129 gr. SST as well.

~ .270 Win. performance. (w/o the recoil)






GR

 

[Newtosavage]

HDY offers both the 123 gr. and 129 gr. SST as well.

~ .270 Win. performance. (w/o the recoil)






GR

Yup, saw those too. I ran a box of 123 SST's through my Grendel and they worked very well on game. Tempted to try the 129's but as they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The 6.5 CM, like the 6.5x55 and .260 were optimized around 140-grain bullets. And I tend to be a heavy for caliber guy in all my hunting rifles.

 

[Garandimal]

Yup, saw those too. I ran a box of 123 SST's through my Grendel and they worked very well on game. Tempted to try the 129's but as they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The 6.5 CM, like the 6.5x55 and .260 were optimized around 140-grain bullets. And I tend to be a heavy for caliber guy in all my hunting rifles.

Like heavy as well. (.270/150 gr.)

But the 6.5 CM (and similar .308 based 6.5 cartridges) don't push the 140 gr. fast enough for dynamic performance on Deer-sized game at medium ranges (2-300 yds), where the -03 based cartridges do.

The ~125 gr., however, is outstanding at it.

They will shoot flatter and hit harder. (w/ ~ 25% less recoil than the 130 gr. .270)

Slow and heavy - is better for paper and large bodied game.

YMMV.




GR

 

[Newtosavage]

Like heavy as well. (.270/150 gr.)

But the 6.5 CM (and similar .308 based 6.5 cartridges) don't push the 140 gr. fast enough for dynamic performance on Deer-sized game at medium ranges (2-300 yds), where the -03 based cartridges do.

The ~125 gr., however, is outstanding at it.

They will shoot flatter and hit harder. (w/ ~ 25% less recoil than the 130 gr. .270)

Slow and heavy - is better for paper and large bodied game.

YMMV.




GR

I think we're splitting hairs now though, since one bullet might be theoretically "better" at 100 yards and another "better" at 300.

And really, we're only talking a difference of maybe 150 fps. tops. So, a 140 grainer at 2300 fps impact velocity vs. a 125 at 2400? Being a lifelong bowhunter, I want two holes with a blood trail. It's just what I'm used to and familiar with. Heavies give me the best chance at two holes.

 

[Gtscotty]

Yup, saw those too. I ran a box of 123 SST's through my Grendel and they worked very well on game. Tempted to try the 129's but as they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The 6.5 CM, like the 6.5x55 and .260 were optimized around 140-grain bullets. And I tend to be a heavy for caliber guy in all my hunting rifles.

I hear ya, I like heavy for caliber softer bullets, reliable, wide, deep wounding. These kinds of bullets are very well matched with the 6.5. If you do try the copper bullets, I'll just say the 127gr LRX are awesome shooters and are longer than most 140gr lead core bullets.

But the 6.5 CM (and similar .308 based 6.5 cartridges) don't push the 140 gr. fast enough for dynamic performance on Deer-sized game at medium ranges (2-300 yds), where the -03 based cartridges do.

100% BS. Stop hijacking threads to repost this nonsense, listen to people that have actually used these cartridges and learn something if you're able.

 

[Garandimal]

100% BS. Stop hijacking threads to repost this nonsense, listen to people that have actually used these cartridges and learn something if you're able.

2700 fps, out of a 24" Bbl... is slow - and will lack dynamic performance at 2-300 yards, and the lighter body will not take advantage of the higher SD.

Punching holes.

Whereas, the 130 gr. .270 has dropped literally millions of Deer at that range.

The ~ 125 gr. .264 bullets, at the velocities that the 6.5 CM can produce in that weight, mimics that.




GR

 

[Gtscotty]

2700 fps, out of a 24" Bbl... is slow - and will lack dynamic performance at 2-300 yards, and the lighter body will not take advantage of the higher SD.

Punching holes.

Whereas, the 130 gr. .270 has dropped literally millions of Deer at that range.

The ~ 125 gr. .264 bullets, at the velocities that the 6.5 CM can produce in that weight, mimics that.


GR

Again, complete ignorant nonsense. 2,800 fps is reasonable out of a 24" barrel, There's published load data at that level and I've done it, as have many others that you've ignored in past threads. Beyond that, the same bullets at 2,600 to 2,700 fps work just fine.

I've also killed animals, elk, Antelope, deer with heavy bullet 6.5 Creedmoor, and have friends that have killed many more with heavy bullets at and beyond the 200 - 300 yd range you reference. Same with other cartridges like .308 with heavy bullets at moderate speed. They work very well, this is actual blood on the ground, not hand waiving and guessing.

Have you put any heavy 6.5 bullets through animals to back up your conjecture that they don't work well? Do you have any experience at all with what you keep repeating about .308 based rounds? If not, what makes you think your baseless theory overrules every one else's actual experience?

I'm glad you're excited about your new .270, but that's not a good reason to take over and dump on every thread about 6.5 and related cartridges. You have no idea what you're talking about, please stop.

 

[Newtosavage]

2700 fps, out of a 24" Bbl... is slow - and will lack dynamic performance at 2-300 yards, and the lighter body will not take advantage of the higher SD.

Punching holes.

Whereas, the 130 gr. .270 has dropped literally millions of Deer at that range.

The ~ 125 gr. .264 bullets, at the velocities that the 6.5 CM can produce in that weight, mimics that.




GR

Honestly, if you think there is any real world difference between a 130-grain .270 and a 140-grain 6.5 CM at practical hunting ranges, I think you're dreaming.

Please explain this "dymanic performance" you keep citing. Are you trying to suggest the theory of hydrostatic shock?

 

[Newtosavage]

The difference between a 130-grain .270 and a 140-grain 6.5 CM at 500 yards, with the same bullet (SST) is exactly 100 fps. and all of 40 ft. lbs. of energy. Tell me again how "dynamic" that difference is?

 

[Newtosavage]

Again, complete ignorant nonsense. 2,800 fps is reasonable out of a 24" barrel, There's published load data at that level and I've done it, as have many others that you've ignored in past threads. Beyond that, the same bullets at 2,600 to 2,700 fps work just fine.

I've also killed animals, elk, Antelope, deer with heavy bullet 6.5 Creedmoor, and have friends that have killed many more with heavy bullets at and beyond the 200 - 300 yd range you reference. Same with other cartridges like .308 with heavy bullets at moderate speed. They work very well, this is actual blood on the ground, not hand waiving and guessing.

Have you put any heavy 6.5 bullets through animals to back up your conjecture that they don't work well? Do you have any experience at all with what you keep repeating about .308 based rounds? If not, what makes you think your baseless theory overrules every one else's actual experience?

I'm glad you're excited about your new .270, but that's not a good reason to take over and dump on every thread about 6.5 and related cartridges. You have no idea what you're talking about, please stop.

Curious which bullet you used for the elk. As accurate as this rifle is proving to be (shot another 1/2" group with it today), I will probably take it elk hunting at some point, even if it's the backup to my 7mm-08 Tikka. The terminal performance I've seen from the 140 SST makes me think I'm just going to stick with it, regardless of the critter.

 

[horsey300]

Honestly, if we put aside the magnumitis (I think everyone should succumb once and move on) (also if we're swinging bigger sticks the .270 needs to leave before the .280ais, 7rms, 7stws, and 7ultramags show up) I bought the creed dies a while back, I would have preferred .260, but alas the devil is in the details as they say and the details favor the creed. My oldest wants to hunt everything, the creed will get her through high school and likely college. One bullet that truly intrigues me (for honestly no logical reason I can grasp) is the hdy, 160 gr rn. I'll likely stock those up by the boatload, I'd think (based on experience with rns in other chamberings and its ridiculous sd) that if I could send em out at 2500 fps, they would be remarkable for larger game at reasonable distances. Farther out? There are accubonds and monolithic bullets to penetrate well too, definitely in favor of bonded, but 1st world problems i suppose........ i DO look forward to the acquisition (or more likely build) and subsequent playing with 1 of at least 2cms.

 

[Gtscotty]

Curious which bullet you used for the elk. As accurate as this rifle is proving to be (shot another 1/2" group with it today), I will probably take it elk hunting at some point, even if it's the backup to my 7mm-08 Tikka. The terminal performance I've seen from the 140 SST makes me think I'm just going to stick with it, regardless of the critter.

I use 140gr Accubonds, they open up well and hold together to penetrate. I also have a load with the 127gr LRX that is very accurate and turned the lights off quick on the antelope I shot with it. I've had good luck with the Accubonds across different chamberings though so I'm hesitant to pick the LRX over the Noslers for most of my hunting.

I had a good load with the 143gr ELDx before I had my barrel chopped, I've talked to a guy who killed a bull at very long range with those, but I don't think that's the bullet I would choose for elk. The 140gr SST seems like a decently tough bullet from the reviews and tests, not at all like the 165gr .308 SSTs I used several years ago that tended to come apart.

I have a friend that killed two antelope, two muleys and a cow elk this past year between 200 yds and 400 yds, all with 140gr Sierra Gamekings. He got exits on everything even driving through both of the cows shoulders. The SGK isn't anything special, but long bullets at reasonable velocities just seem to work without too many surprises.

 

[Garandimal]

I think we're splitting hairs now though, since one bullet might be theoretically "better" at 100 yards and another "better" at 300.

And really, we're only talking a difference of maybe 150 fps. tops. So, a 140 grainer at 2300 fps impact velocity vs. a 125 at 2400? Being a lifelong bowhunter, I want two holes with a blood trail. It's just what I'm used to and familiar with. Heavies give me the best chance at two holes.

Well...

The 140 gr. catches up to the energy of the 125 gr.at ~ 500 yards and 8" lower, at which point, both velocities are about spent. (1850-1950 fps)

But, like the 130 gr. .270 Win it mimics, it is the range of impact velocities in excess of 2400 fps that the 125 gr. will shine, and that is out to ~ 250 yards (from a 22" Bbl.) - a full 100 yds further than the 140 gr.

It is just an option - that has dropped about a million deer since 1925.

Pokin' holes works, too.






GR

 

[horsey300]

Somebody's calculator is broken methinks. A decent 140 from the creed will get out to 1800 fps@700yds (this is being pushed hard with a 24"barrel and 10 mph crosswind), this means that at 400 yds, 19 inches of drop (1.3 mil/4.5 moa) with a zero at 225 yds, but the crosswind is only pushing it 9 inches off course (barely over 2 moa/.6mil). With the SD up at .287 and VERY tolerable recoil, it's not rocket science to our figure out that this is a very universal cartridge for NA. It's not what I'd call bear protection, but it's certainly far from shining only with 125s (we'll probably download 100s or 120s for fun, but in a year or 2, pushing 130s hard will be the next goal) and CERTAINLY is useful for more than just paper punching (Idk who else saw that one on YouTube, but I about died laughing). @Newtosavage congratulations and good luck sir!

 

[Newtosavage]

It is just an option - that has dropped about a million deer since 1925.

If that's the yardstick we're using, the .270 has a long way to go to catch up to the lowly 30-30. And you forgot to answer my question about "dynamic performance." What exactly are you talking about?

@Newtosavage congratulations and good luck sir!

Thanks. The caliber has grown on me quickly. Yesterday evening I shot another cloverleaf group with the 140 SST's. I seriously doubted I would find a more accurate hunting rifle than my Savage with the 7mm-08 barrel, but this 6.5 CM barrel is beating it so far.

Boring accuracy is what I look for in my hunting rifles. No surprises. Surprises lead to long tracking jobs and lost animals and nobody wants that.

 

[LoonWulf]

HDY offers both the 123 gr. and 129 gr. SST as well.

~ .270 Win. performance. (w/o the recoil)






GR

Just a note, 123s are vld type and offer a higher BC than the 129s. I've shot the Amax versions at 3k from my 22" Howa with moa accuracy.
Didn't hit any game with them from the CM tho.

Shot some stuff with my Grendel launching at 2500ish, and they produced text book cup n core performance.
The ssts are tougher, and should do well up to the 3k the CM can generate.

I'm also liking the looks of the 129Ablr.....

 

[Newtosavage]

123s are vld type and offer a higher BC than the 129s

I had to go back and re-check a couple times when I first saw that. The 123 SST's blew some big holes in a couple coyotes I shot (impact velocity around 2300 fps) and I quit using them and switched to the 130 Gamechangers, which gave me the terminal performance (and accuracy) I was looking for from the Grendel.

I was planning to load those 130 Gamechangers for the CM until I saw what these 140 SST's can do. I still really like those 130 Gamechangers, but I'm not fixing what ain't broke.

 

[someguy2800]

What kind of velocities do you get with the 130 gamechangers in your Grendel? How did the terminal performance look?

 

[jmr40]

If looking for an inexpensive (relative) target bullet give the Barnes Match Burners a look.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...caliber-65mm-264-diameter-140-grain-boat-tail

This isn't a solid copper bullet like most Barnes bullets. I've found them to work with exactly the same load as my 143 gr ELDX bullets and the impact down range is the same. They are an inexpensive option for range use. I'll save the ELDX's for hunting.

Don't over think the velocity thing. I'm quite sure most any decent 125 gr or heavier bullet will kill a deer. But the heavier bullets work just fine and are a better option for larger game. Too much velocity can be as bad as too little. It varies by the bullet design, but with most bullets impact velocities between about 2800 fps and 1800 fps provide adequate expansion to get the job done. Too fast and they over expand.

I'm getting just under 2700 fps with my CM and 140/143 gr bullets. I don't need to worry about bullet performance from the muzzle to about 700 yards and that is almost twice as far as I'll shoot. I consider about 400 my personal limit and my loads are still impacting at around 2200 fps at that range.

 

[Garandimal]

It is just an option - that has dropped about a million deer since 1925.

If that's the yardstick we're using, the .270 has a long way to go to catch up to the lowly 30-30...

At 2-300 yards?

Not likely.




GR

 

[Garandimal]

Somebody's calculator is broken methinks....

Well...

Used Nosler Partition bullets and factory velocities, corrected for a 22" Hunting bbl.

...then ran'en through the HDY Ballistic calculator.

The 140 gr. catches up to the energy of the 125 gr.at ~ 500 yards and 8" lower, at which point, both velocities are about spent. (1850-1950 fps)

But, like the 130 gr. .270 Win it mimics, it is the range of impact velocities in excess of 2400 fps that the 125 gr. will shine, and that is out to ~ 250 yards (from a 22" Bbl.) - a full 100 yds further than the 140 gr.




GR

 

[Newtosavage]

At 2-300 yards?

Not likely.




GR

Now you're going to claim the "million deer" were shot between 200-300 yards? Talk about moving the goalposts. I would wager that a million deer have STILL not been shot between 200-300 yards, with every caliber combined. The average shot is probably right about 100 yards, if that.

Look, the .270 is a great round bud. Nobody here is putting it down and I certainly didn't have it in mind when I started this thread. Hell, I own one and am planning to give it to my son for his first hunting rifle because it is so versatile and ammo is so darn available. So just calm down and stay on topic please.

 

[Newtosavage]

Oh, and you still have yet to answer my question. LOL