Another AK thread: education and opinions on brands.

[Deus Machina]

I've got money in my pocket and it's getting a tad warm.

So I'm looking for a bang-for-the-buck AK-style rifle, in x39.

Original plan was to convert a Saiga, but no place local carries them (aside from a used one at $575) and I'm getting mixed reviews over some stuff.

Such as old Century was good, new Century isn't, vice versa, it *was* good, then is worth more as scrap, and the brand new stuff is good...

I see a couple Arsenal's around (an SLR 107f caught my eye) that seem alright, but it comes with a 5-round mag, which I'm assuming is single-stack. Is converting these as easy as just opening the well up?

Someone give me some footing here?

PS: saw a couple house-builds with Romanian parts. Is that what Century is? otherwise, what could I generally expect from those?

 

[sernv99]

I have the Arsenal AK, the fit and finish is first rate...they are expensive however I didnt feel like getting a cheap Century and having to work on it to make it nice. My local shop had a Century and when I handled it, the parts were loose. The Arsenal on the other hand, all parts are nice and tightly fitted. Big difference. Mine came with a 10 round or 5 round mag I think but I bought the waffle AK mags, 30 rounders, and they slapped right in. No mods needed to the gun.

 

[Wopasaurus]

I bought a Yugo m70. The receiver has Century Arms yadda yadda stamped on it, and it is a solid AK. It's got a good feel to it, and feels kinda heavy, but not cumbersome at all.

I'm not saying to buy a century cetme or anything like that. I reckon that I just got the fluke quality build that they did. It takes any magazine I've put it in it w/o wobble, and I've been very impressed with it to say the least... I reckon I just got lucky

 

[Neo-Luddite]

So I'm looking for a bang-for-the-buck AK-style rifle, in x39.

What I went with about 3 weeks back.
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...62x39-caliber-/cPath/209_214/products_id/1055

This model/package exactly.
Purchased from AIM, but they seem to be out of stock already.

J and G are also good folks to deal with.

Yes, a WASR-10--recent vintage.
Tapco trigger group--no 'slap' issue.
Accuracy is decent. US made gas piston. Side-mount for optic. Sights good--not canted.

Ugly (but solid) wood. Romanian mags fit nice and tight. Extra goodies not anything special--worn but functional stuff. Very light and compact rifle--something you could probably 'build up' a bit if you wanted
a more modern look but perfectly workable as-is. The only thing I'm looking to add is a mount/optic.

Not an AK for an AK Guy or Gal to be sure, but a rugged little bugger. To put it in perspective, for me, a replacment carbine for my Ruger Mini-14 that has a little more punch and ammo I can (maybe) afford to shoot for fun with our nephews.

 

[Moose458]

I've got a Century International Arms Yugo M70 and its a super buy. Its built like a tank on a DCI receiver and you can still get one for $450 - $500. For the money if I could only have one AK, it would be this one. Fortunately we are not limited to just one AK rifle.

 

[H2O MAN]

I put my money into pre ban Chinese Norinco and Poly Tech AKMs.

 

[ByAnyMeans]

I've shot a lot of AK's before and nothing compares price to product like a converted saiga. Could you tell me the issues you have heard about them. I converted my own and it's great (cost $450 with side mount and red dot) and the most I heard was AtlanticArms conversions not have a bullet guide installed yet there had been no reports of this causing problems. I believe there new ones now have the bullet guide.

Saiga is a nuetered Russian that's changed back, can't see how that's bad but in reality any AK will go bang for the most part and if it's not how you like you can redo it. they are very easy to work on if you want to change the FCG or have canted sights, rerstain the furniture and whatnot.

 

[SN13]

Saigas: Brand New Parts, Chrome Lined bores. 100% Russian.

Conversion: Did mine with triangle files, a cold chisel, and a rubber mallet. (I wish I was joking)

My X39 shoots 2-3" groups with optics. Great lil' gun.

 

[RP88]

the pre-converted Saiga i got from Atlantic is a great buy for the money, especially considering how much just a base model costs now. If you don't get a bullet guide, then just buy one and do it yourself. It's a bit disappointing that it happened to me like that, but other than that one minor setback, it's a great shooter, and a straight shooter at that, for an AK. It fed fine after it broke in without a bullet guide of any sort.

 

[caseypj]

I bought a Century GP1975 WASR, solid rifle, just the receiver is a pain to put back on.

 

[nalioth]

I bought a Yugo m70. The receiver has Century Arms yadda yadda stamped on it, and it is a solid AK. It's got a good feel to it, and feels kinda heavy, but not cumbersome at all.

I'm not saying to buy a century cetme or anything like that. I reckon that I just got the fluke quality build that they did. It takes any magazine I've put it in it w/o wobble, and I've been very impressed with it to say the least... I reckon I just got lucky

No luck involved.

Century learned from it's past and has contracted professional builders to assemble their Yugo AKs.


Arsenals are overpriced for what they are.

An AK can be made in a state-run (or formerly state-run) factory for around $50. They all run the same.

Why pay 2x or 3x the price, just because "it looks nicer"?

+1 on the Saiga ( convert it yourself and get the rifle you want )

 

[briansmithwins]

I really like my Arsenal SLR107FR. Manufactured from new parts, not used crap. Mine will do 3MOA with irons and functions 100%. If you want a good AK that you don't have to mess with, get the Arsenal

The paint that Arsenal uses over park can be removed with carb cleaner or some other solvents, so don't use those. CLP, LSA, and Ballistol do not soften or remove the paint on mine.

Arsenal had problems with SLR107FRs that could not be zeroed due to excessive windage. My rifle was one of these. They fixed it but would not pay the shipping to send it in. Since then, Arsenal has started shipping rifles with test targets. If I was buying I'd only get a rifle with a target. BSW

Complete rifle with extra foot action.


Same rifle field stripped.


Me shooting SLR106FR at local rifle match.


SLR106FR with clear mag.

 

[MyRoad]

Coming in at about $550, somewhere between the $350+/- basic ones and the $850+ Arsenals, are these:

ARMORY USA SSR-85 AK-47s

(there's another model with a synthetic stock)

http://www.ordnanceoutsellers.com/index.htm

I don't have one, but I have only heard good things about them. If I were going to buy a mid-priced one, that's what I'd get. And although I haven't worked with them in a couple of years, Ordnance Outsellers were great to work with when I purchased from them in the past.

 

[nalioth]

Coming in at about $550, somewhere between the $350+/- basic ones and the $850+ Arsenals, are these:

ARMORY USA SSR-85 AK-47s

(there's another model with a synthetic stock)

http://www.ordnanceoutsellers.com/index.htm

I don't have one, but I have only heard good things about them. If I were going to buy a mid-priced one, that's what I'd get. And although I haven't worked with them in a couple of years, Ordnance Outsellers were great to work with when I purchased from them in the past.

No, you're falling for the misinformation on these.

Armory USA has been out of the gun business for quite some time. These "SSR-85" rifles are Bulgarian made out of Arsenals "2nds".

They have absolutely nothing to do with Armory USA.

 

[MyRoad]

No, you're falling for the misinformation on these.

Thanks for the information! Ordnance Outsellers were very well respected on SIGForum when I used to hang out there several years ago, and I basically trusted their information based on that reputation.

 

[benEzra]

Strictly on a bang-for-the-buck basis, Century AK's win hands down, IMO, as long as you can examine the rifle in person before you buy it to ensure you get a decently put together one.

If everything is put together right, a Century Yugo or even a WASR will run just as well as a $600+ AK will. Fit and finish is not nearly as nice, but functionally they are fine.

FWIW, I bought a 2002 model Romanian SAR-1, Century imported, in 2003, and love it.

More money will get you nicer wood, nicer finish, and possibly marginally better accuracy from one of the smaller-volume builders/importers. But I'm quite satisfied with mine.

 

[RP88]

IMO...an SSR is a waste of 650 bucks

I'veh eard four stories of the muzzle break popping off and being lost forever. I've also heard of the gas tube fitting very loosely and wobbling.

I thought it was just bad luck, then I saw an SSR-85 being sold - with a 'used' sticker on it - missing the muzzle break. Gee, I wonder what happened...

 

[nalioth]

IMO...an SSR is a waste of 650 bucks

Good! More Arsenal USA guns for the rest of us.



You are correct, though, if you are referring to the Bulgarian rifles referenced above.

 

[RP88]

arent the SSRs non-Arsenal? Either way, theres a big difference between a 600-buck Bulgy and a 'holy crap thats expensive but really really really nice' Bulgy, like the ones actually made by Arsenal. The ones offered through AIM and whatnot are the ones I'm referring to. I remember planning on getting one until I heard about those stories.

 

[nalioth]

arent the SSRs non-Arsenal?

Ok. Class time.

Arsenal USA was a Houston based company and was the first importer for Arsenal of Bulgaria. They offered excellent quality rifles, even after Arsenal of Bulgaria opened Arsenal, Inc. in Las Vegas.

Arsenal USA is no longer in business. Arsenal, Inc. is Arsenal of Bulgaria's importation arm here in the USA.

The SSR-85s are made from Arsenal of Bulgarias 'non-usable-for-military-rifles' parts (sort of a Bulgarian WASR).

 

[Deus Machina]

Alright, after more searching...

What about Polytech? Norinco?

Might have a lead on a Saiga with a crack at the gas piston threads. I'm not seriously wanting it, but if it will take whatever bolt carrier I shove in there to fix that problem, I'm hardly opposed to a weekend project...

 

[nalioth]

Might have a lead on a Saiga with a crack at the gas piston threads.

That won't bother the Saiga one bit.

It's not a 'dangerous defect, even if it totally cracks in half.

If you get it, it may not need any attention at all, or at the most, a gentle caress with a tig welder.

It takes an awful lot to make a Kalashnikov unusable.

 

[Daryl Licht]

I've seen the stories about the SSR's popping off muzzle brakes as well. I do have a recent one though, and think it's a right nice AK. The older models had the muzzle threads removed and the brake tack welded in place. The newer guns have threaded barrels. The gas tube is tight, doesn't move at all, and though not difficult to remove it does take some effort. I'm sure there are some older guns still floating around on the market and it may be a crapshoot on when any individual gun was produced.

If I were in the market for another, I'd consider another SSR85 from Atlantic, or would look at the guns from Henderson, Lancaster, or Vector. Look around arfcom for a while, and you'll see somebody who is dissatisfied with any of them. Even Arsenal doesn't seem to be immune from letting the occasional turd slip by to hear those guys over there tell it.

Be sure to buy it from someone who will take the gun back and make it right.

 

[New Mag]

I agree the Yugo AK's from century are a lot better then the past stuff from them....paid $519 and it has new tapco trigger (very nice trigger), new barrel..etc.

I like how the Yougo is thicker and feels more solid.

Now to show my AK ignorance...I have been told it is because of this "difference" that they have propritary parts that are not interchangable with other models..
Is this true???

Thanks,
Shane

 

[briansmithwins]

Most of the Yugo AKs are built up on RPK receivers with 1.6mm thick metal instead of 1mm that's on standard AKs. The trunnions are also heavier.

That's balanced out by the addition of the grenade launcher valve which provides a failure point and the lack of chrome lining on the chamber and bore. Since I actually shoot corrosive ammo regularly I really want a hardchromed barrel. BSW