Another (bad?) idea....

Status
Not open for further replies.

LoonWulf

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2010
Messages
18,023
Location
Hawaii
So Ive paid for, but have not yet picked up (my permits expired, be a month before i can get it) a Ruger American Magnum. This one Is chambered for 300WM, which is far from my favorite cartridge, but also not my least favorite. I like pretty much everything about the Americans tho, so just being in the wrong chambering isnt enough to dissuade me from a good deal.

That said, It also immediately started my brain spiraling down into what cartridge I would rebarrel this thing to when i finally run out of the ammo that comes with it.

Then the other day @troy fairweather posted his thread about a 2 rifle battery for use around the US. Thats always a fun game to play, and I really enjoyed the mental exercise of balancing convenience, function, with my own near obsession with unusual cartridges.
This brought me to the thought that for at least larger medium game, the .300WM is really an ideal cartridge, never mind my personal aversion to it. So what would my "light" be if i were constrained by a belted magnum bolt head?...And would I be comfortable shooting EVERYTHING the light couldnt take comfortably with a .300?
This also brought to mind a PM conversation I had with @Varminterror, and some of the points he made.....

Wheels turn.....

So this AM I was wondering around work trying to get caught up, having wandered in 2 hours latter than I usually start, and I had a thought. Why not try build a "Traveling" rifle kit from this Ruger American as a starting point?

The premise is a self contained set that can take any "big game" comfortably from zero to as far as the shooter is comfortable with. (this excludes the African dangerous game for me. I simply have not interest in hunting them, I might included a heavier cambering simply to complete the Idea).
Weight is on the heavier side of medium, configurations running 9-12lbs or so. This is about as heavy as im comfortable carrying all day.
Optics should be removeable with minimal change of impact when reattached (tho im thinking a single wide range variable thats simply resighted (from range cards, and test shoot) might make more sense for MOST situations).
I have a case i could use, but Id like to shrink this down as much as possible so may build something, or see what double sided cases are available.

Do all this relatively cheaply. The idea being that i could loose this whole rig, and be out less than my ridgeline cost me.


Heres where Ive gotten to in terms of specifics.

Base rifle will be Ruger American RAM (Cause I already bought it, and for a cheap rifle I like them)
A savage might actually be a better choice, simply because you can switch bolt heads and DMs to go from one cartridge head family to another.
Pretty much ANY classic rifle action would be classier, but I LIKE the Americans.

The factory stock will be reinforced, and stiffened (probably re-contour it also with shaping foam and a layer or two of glass. If that fails to provide what I want, Ill order another B&C (tho ill have to check with them on the heavier recoil and the aluminum recoil lugs in the stock). This would primarily be used with the "medium" or "heavy" cartridge, as a stalking rifle etc.
I also had the idea to add a Boyds Provarmint adjustable (or similar), primarily for use with the "light" cartridge configuration, tho It could also serve for damping recoil if shooting from a fixed position with either of the heavier options. This appeals to me as I shoot this shape MUCH better from a pod, or from a solid rest. This would allow for a more dedicated "long range" set up.



Barrels, Factory and ershaw.

The factory .300 would be retained as the "medium", this would provide a solid "do all" for most non-dangerous game. It would also serve as my spot and stalk, still, and larger medium game at range set up.
24" (+/- a brake) medium contour

For a "light" cartridge im thinking id like to add either a .257, or .270 WBY magnum, with a fast twist barrel. Im leaning towards the .257 as the .270 and .300 are very similar in performance....but Ive been saying i was gonna build a .270 so perhaps I drop to a pair of barrels, which WOULD be easier to case and scope.
Another thought would be to split the difference and go with the .264WM.
26" medium heavy contour

The "heavy" would either be a .375 or 416 ruger, simply because they fit in the action. I could change this to a .458WM, which would give a bit more top end. The .300 would do well enough on most stuff that this might be a better choice...I wonder if the .458 would count as a straight walled cartridge in states that require them.
22/23" medium contour

All barrels would retain their own barrel nuts, and id either open the stocks and make a hole and spanner set up. Or simply remove the action from the stock and use the aftermarket flat sided nuts and a wrench.

Headspacing and return to "zero" would be handled by a set of dummy cartridges filled with epoxy, or if they all stick with the same cartridge family perhaps I can just get away with my belted mag gauge set (set on the go gauge).



Optics

Would probably consist of a wide range variable, say my athlon 2-15x50 Midas or Ares.
Also a "standard" 3/4-10/12x40, and a LPV 1-4x20/24. Not sure on branding, tho probably vx3i (or something similar) for the standard, and LPV.
I could probably get away with JUST the 2-15x50, and reset zero, But I figured something lighter/lower power might be preferable.

The rail would probably be a full length warne, with QD maxima rings on the scopes (as these are the only qd rings ive played with, and they seem to return zero pretty well).

For a case Im not sure what I want to do, honestly I almost never use hard cases. I do have a big, BIG, case i could reinforce and re-purpose, but....its BIG.
Tools included would be a basic bit/driver set with a torque wrench (wheeler fat wrench maybe), and the barrel nut wrench, tho if using flat sided nuts i can just MAKE a wrench or use an open end.

Again, just one of those interesting thoughts that popped into my head. Assembling this would/could easily take a year or more.
MOST of it I would end up buying any way, its just putting it all together in a way to make it useful as a whole that Ive never done.

Whatcha all think?

and Ive probably missed something in the typing.....
 
Last edited:
A .458 would be pretty cool, how would that work with the magazine? Never really looked at an american mag before other than my ranch rifle with the mini 30 mags.
Should function fine, the Ruger Magnums use the .450 bush master mag design, which is a staggered center feed.

ER Shaw barrel?

Ahem...
https://www.lothar-walther.com/cm

264 WM with a 1:8 twist
I'd go 375 Ruger on the high end.

I enjoy Loonwulf After Dark posts.
The Shaw barrels are usually accurate, but lack the refinement of better options...they are also 190 bucks a pop, which is what takes this from the realm of impossibility to....huh, gimme a few months.

Walthers actually one of the barrel makers ive been wanting to try, but still have not bought one from them. If I drop to a 2 barrel set up with .300 being either the light or heavy, that would work out to the same cost as a pair of shaws, which would put them on the table......It WOULD be really interesting to compare them to the slightly more expensive Shilens Ive used. I want to try a Mcgowan also.....Devils in the details...

Also, Very happy I entertain! :D
 
Last edited:
LoonWulf, you have put a lot of thought into this!
The 300 Win Mag is a great choice for the Big Rifle. The 300 will kill anything on planet that I would hunt. I like the idea of the 264 Win Mag as a second cartridge choice. The only thing is that they cross over on 95 +% of what the cartridges are good for.
I have a few friends that have 264 mag rifles, they are great. If Remington wouldn't have came out with the 7mm Rem Mag the 264 mag would be much more popular.

Have fun with the Ruger American and the 300 Win Mag.

I see that I made a mistake on my thread about the Ruger American Cartridge choice adding (Left Hand). I listed chamberings that the left hand rifle is available in.

Safe shooting,
Jeff
 
Should function fine, the Ruger Magnums use the .450 bush master mag design, which is a staggered center feed.


The Shaw barrels are usually accurate, but lack the refinement of better options...they are also 190 bucks a pop, which is what takes this from the realm of impossibility to....huh, gimme a few months.

Walthers actually one of the barrel makers ive been wanting to try, but still have not bought one from them. If I drop to a 2 barrel set up with .300 being either the light or heavy, that would work out to the same cost as a pair of shaws, which would put them on the table......It WOULD be really interesting to compare them to the slightly more expensive Shilens Ive used. I want to try a Mcgowan also.....Devils in the details...

Also, Very happy I entertain! :D
On the light side, .240 wby, or .264 wm. On the heavy side? If your .300 can't do it (smh) you're already set up for .375 Ruger. Want an excuse for a new cartridge setup? .458 would be cool.
So my Benelli should be in today.... Scope mounts to the barrel, should save time sighting in when swapping barrels...... just food for thought.
 
I continue to be amazed at how well my Ruger Predators shoot. Not just for the money, but at any price. I'm sure the magnum versions won't disappoint. I was at the range yesterday and my $350 Ruger Predator in 308 out shot a Tikka CTR and a Bergara Ridge in 308. And the Predators I have in 6.5 CM and 223 are both more accurate than the 308 Predator.
 
My answer to this question, I think you have already heard.

I started with a Ruger M77 Hawkeye All Weather in 300wm for myself, and a 7 Rem Mag for my wife. Mine got a new 300wm barrel and a 458wm, while my wife’s got a new 7RM barrel, a 338wm, and a 416 Ruger (wasn’t originally planned). I’m strongly considering a 416 Ruger barrel for mine as well, and also have another 30 cal barrel on order to swap to 300 PRC instead of WM.

Simplifying life, a 300 PRC plus a 416 Ruger would likely be easiest, especially doing this on an American with nutted barrels instead of the shouldered barrels of the Hawkeye.
 
Since you are not adverse to new or obscure calibers, and have a standard magnum action... howzabout a .358 Norma? Or since .416 Ruger was mentioned, the .416 Taylor?

I think the Norma will do anything 95% of non-varmint hunters will ever want a large caliber rifle to do anywhere on the planet. (Caliber restrictions eliminate it for some stuff overseas.)

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2019/6/21/behind-the-bullet-358-norma-magnum/

The Taylor? 100%.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/416Taylor.htm

Just a thought...
Stay safe.
 
I think it might be simpler to load your own ammunition for the .300 and tailor various loads (perhaps only two or three variations) for the game and conditions.
The full house load for large game, a second loading duplicating the .308 Winchester level of performance and then - maybe - a third load of near .30-30 Winchester or 7.62x39mm for lighter weight critters.

Yes, you'd have to segregate the loads, probably in separate twenty round plastic boxes (depending on your pleasure), but that's probably easier than attempting to change barrels. You'd have different scope settings as well, but you mentioned sighting cards anyway.
 
Funny that yesterday I started a thread in the gunsmithing forum about a similar idea using a 1917 action as a switch barrel. The cartridges I was thinking were a 30 mag (wm or h&h) and a 458 Lott for the heavy. Late last night I was mulling over the 264wm as the little mag barrel. I guess it was just in the air....
 
On the light side, .240 wby, or .264 wm. On the heavy side? If your .300 can't do it (smh) you're already set up for .375 Ruger. Want an excuse for a new cartridge setup? .458 would be cool.
So my Benelli should be in today.... Scope mounts to the barrel, should save time sighting in when swapping barrels...... just food for thought.
My thought behind the .458 was mostly it means i can just use my headspace gauges, and if for some reason I decide I NEED to kill a pachyderm, its probably more effective (if less versatile) than the .375

Your Benelli would be a great rifle to do something like this....cause ya KNOW your gonna buy more barrels and scopes, you just need a case! Im look forward to hearing about that rifle when u get it.

I'd go 257 over the 277 but have you thought about a 240 wby. Anything you pick will be interesting. Can the recoil lug on the ruger hold up with anything bigger then a 375. Tho the 458s are like a heavy push.
The steel lugs i think will be fine, as long as the actions properly torqued into the stock. I can also put internal cross blocks behind them to distribute the energy more evenly. The aluminum lugs on the b&c tho, im not sure about. One option would be to have them milled out and a pair of boyds steel lugs epoxied in.

In regards to the .240wby. Its a .473 cartridge and wont hold in rams .532 bolt face. It WOULD be the ideal option for a light "magnum" (its basically a 6-06), and man is it a sexy looking round.

My answer to this question, I think you have already heard.

I started with a Ruger M77 Hawkeye All Weather in 300wm for myself, and a 7 Rem Mag for my wife. Mine got a new 300wm barrel and a 458wm, while my wife’s got a new 7RM barrel, a 338wm, and a 416 Ruger (wasn’t originally planned). I’m strongly considering a 416 Ruger barrel for mine as well, and also have another 30 cal barrel on order to swap to 300 PRC instead of WM.

Simplifying life, a 300 PRC plus a 416 Ruger would likely be easiest, especially doing this on an American with nutted barrels instead of the shouldered barrels of the Hawkeye.
I do remember, and actually the .458 became a part of this thought after rereading that conversation.

I think your right on the PRC and .416 being the easiest, and probably an ideal combo for MOST big game hunting.
Im not sure I can run the PRC thru the RAM tho, its action and mag are little short.

Since you are not adverse to new or obscure calibers, and have a standard magnum action... howzabout a .358 Norma? Or since .416 Ruger was mentioned, the .416 Taylor?

I think the Norma will do anything 95% of non-varmint hunters will ever want a large caliber rifle to do anywhere on the planet. (Caliber restrictions eliminate it for some stuff overseas.)

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2019/6/21/behind-the-bullet-358-norma-magnum/

The Taylor? 100%.

https://www.chuckhawks.com/416Taylor.htm

Just a thought...
Stay safe.
Both rounds I hadnt considered! If sticking to belted mags either would be good options. 416 brass is available, but i cant find any .358....which is a bit of a surprise.

That brings us to another thought that conversation with VT brought up, and i forgot to add, The brass head stamp needs to match the barrels. Which excludes some very interesting wildcats.

I think it might be simpler to load your own ammunition for the .300 and tailor various loads (perhaps only two or three variations) for the game and conditions.
The full house load for large game, a second loading duplicating the .308 Winchester level of performance and then - maybe - a third load of near .30-30 Winchester or 7.62x39mm for lighter weight critters.

Yes, you'd have to segregate the loads, probably in separate twenty round plastic boxes (depending on your pleasure), but that's probably easier than attempting to change barrels. You'd have different scope settings as well, but you mentioned sighting cards anyway.


This absolutely would be easier, but less ideal on the extremes. Its probably the ideal solution for a 1 gun hunter.



So another thought/question.
Id say the .375s probably the more versatile of heavier options, but again i have no real interest (right now) in hunting African dangerous game and on the lighter side, the .300s no slouch.
Would going lighter with a .358NM (assuming i can source brass) or heavier with one of the .416s or .458, (on the off chance of needing a real BIG game/ stoping rifle) make more sense?
 
Last edited:
Funny that yesterday I started a thread in the gunsmithing forum about a similar idea using a 1917 action as a switch barrel. The cartridges I was thinking were a 30 mag (wm or h&h) and a 458 Lott for the heavy. Late last night I was mulling over the 264wm as the little mag barrel. I guess it was just in the air....
I didnt notice that one! ill go look...
I think cabin fevers getting to all of us a bit, and the woulda couldas, are coming out lol.
 
I didnt notice that one! ill go look...
I think cabin fevers getting to all of us a bit, and the woulda couldas, are coming out lol.
That's true for sure, but the Idea of a change barrel has merit. Its easier to just have three rifles, but most days I could swing a 300 buck barrel purchase, but to buy a complete rifle? And optic? That is looking more like 700-1200 bucks for something quality... So yeah, a change barrel is a great idea...
 
Don't know why I forgot the 240 has a 470 rim. I think it would be better to stay with something where ammo is easy to get. A wild cat would be more versatile tho. Thing is even the 257wby is enough for anything in the U.S.
I had the 358nm on a 03 was great, but if I did it again think I'd just do a 375. You could sell the 300 barrel then get a bigger 375 or bigger then just get the smaller. 264wm would be easier to find.

I wonder if anyone has plans they can post for a gun case, I'd like to make one some day. I think I have a book that had plans for one made out of ply wood I'll see if I can find it. Or does pelican sell bigger cases.
 
That's true for sure, but the Idea of a change barrel has merit. Its easier to just have three rifles, but most days I could swing a 300 buck barrel purchase, but to buy a complete rifle? And optic? That is looking more like 700-1200 bucks for something quality... So yeah, a change barrel is a great idea...
Yep, easier to hide from the wife too....dont tell her i said that......

I expect many 458wm’s will have the same issue. I had to push back the bolt stop on my 77 to get a little more bullet weight.
That I didnt know.... How long are .458s running 500s or recommended weight? I can probably scrounge the stuff to make a dummy with, and try it. There isnt a ton of room left to open the port for or aft, or allow more bolt travel....not to mention mag box is only about 3.43 long.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top