Another BP Project

[windini]

I didn't think I had too much time on my hands, but apparently... Some part of me decided to get moving on turning my brass framed FIE 1858 into a snub-snouted Bulldog.

Bought it well used some time ago; loading lever did not move well, but I test fired it and it didn't blow me up. Rather than order a new lever, link pin, and rammer, I decided to chop it up.



Cut the BBL to 3-1/2"



Then I deployed my homemade "Frame Wrench!" Don't laugh; it worked! After lots of Kroil and a butane chef's torch, it did.

The barrel is tapered, so clamping it was challenging. You can't see them, but there are 2 homemade copper sheet vise jaw pads btw the barrel and the jaws. They are just malleable enough to conform to the bbl taper and get a solid grip. I think the copper shim stock was .010" thick.



I'm ditching the lever/arbor pin retainer in favor of a quick-release to be modeled after the commercially available one. I'm going to (try to) make mine out of brass so it'll match the frame (which I plan to blacken or darken significantly).



Started rounding off the grip grame. I'll strip the walnut panels that came on it, then shape them to fit. If I decide to round the backside enough to tag the grip panel retainer posts, I'll drill a hole farther in, add a new cross pin, then make a new set of grip panels.


The "plan," such as it is at present, is to blacken the brass, bring all the steel back to white, then rust blue the barrel & cylinder and put a faux color case hardening on the hammer & trigger. I tried using some Super Blue to blacken some brass bits I had lying around, but found it works decently on some things but abysmally on others. I'll get some Brass Black & see if it's noticeably better, and I've got a buddy looking for some Pro-level brass blackener for me as well.

So far, so fun!

 

[Captain*kirk]

Nice project!

 

[AlexanderA]

I tried using some Super Blue to blacken some brass bits I had lying around, but found it works decently on some things but abysmally on others. I'll get some Brass Black & see if it's noticeably better, and I've got a buddy looking for some Pro-level brass blackener for me as well.

Make a slurry (paste) out of powdered sulfur and oil, and apply to the brass while heating gently. This should blacken the brass nicely.

Casey's Brass Black also works. Their Super Blue is designed for ferrous metals only.

 

[windini]

Make a slurry (paste) out of powdered sulfur and oil, and apply to the brass while heating gently

Thanks for the recipe & tip!

Does "Heating gently" mean preheat brass in an oven at, say 350F, then apply slurry? Or waft with a propane torch while applying the slurry?

I wonder about applying flame to oil-based mix - not the danger of fire but the boiling off of the carrier or otherwise affecting the effect.

 

[AlexanderA]

Does "Heating gently" mean preheat brass in an oven at, say 350F, then apply slurry? Or waft with a propane torch while applying the slurry?

I just used a Bic lighter. The metal should barely be warm to the touch.

 

[windini]

Made a little more progress today. It's nowhere near ready for final assembly; this is just a temporary reassembly~mockup to see how the proportions worked.



I think I'm gonna like it!

 

[1KPerDay]

Grip looks good!

 

[windini]

Pluggin' away!

Worked on some of the steel parts today.

Smoothed the cut end of the barrel, cut the crown, took down the interior & exterior burrs, and "polished" the muzzle - to 600 grit, plenty fine enough for this.



Found out the arbor pin was slightly bent.


I think this explains why the cylinder face bound against a 0.011" feeler gauge on two chambers. A few taps with a plastic-faced mallet made short work of that issue.

also noticed some gas cutting at the spot just under the cylinder gap. Not enough to worry about.


The coarseness of the hammer is a tell! QC at Italian replica parts maker facilities was somewhat lacking in 1973...


It's hard to see in this picture, but I filed & stoned off some of the more offensive burrs and peened edges, while being carefull not to alter the notch geometry, of course. Or should I say: of Coarse?

The rough texture of the hammer has me re-thinking the faux case color idea. I'll decide after everything gets degreased and brought back to white. If the coloring doesn't hide the milling marks, it might be better to just blue it dark.

 

[J-Bar]

Ammonia blackens brass instantly, in case you feel like experimenting. Dab some household ammonia on a hidden spot with a Q-tip and see what you think. Nice work on your remodeling job!

 

[windini]

Chippin' away at it...

"Refining" the grip alteration. There was a slight arc across the width of the backstrap that was compromised by the filing & sanding to round the grip frame. I'm gradually getting it back to shape and will continue polishing without the grip panels once there.


I took the steel parts out of their Evaporust bath...


Then took 'em for a spin on the wire wheel.


Shiny! The hammer came out better than expected, so I'll go ahead and try the faux color case hardening finish on it.


Started rust bluing the barrel & cylinder. The screws - seen soaking in degreasifier (alcohol) above - will get cold-blued.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Wood receiver blocks were used in the old days but they used hardwood. Well done.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

I did a very similar project several years ago.
Seemed like the best use of a brass framed new army.
I didn't bother pulling the barrel though.
Just curious why you wanted to go through the hassle to reblue the barrel. (Maybe I missed it?)
Again, just curious.

 

[Captain*kirk]

It's looking great to me! My guess is it's gonna end up an accurate little shooter!

 

[windini]

I did a very similar project several years ago.
Seemed like the best use of a brass framed new army.
I didn't bother pulling the barrel though.
Just curious why you wanted to go through the hassle to reblue the barrel. (Maybe I missed it?)
Again, just curious.

The whole revolver was a little worse for the wear, and I marred the bluing even more trying to free the barrel. I've reblued several barrels and parts already, and actually enjoy the process as well as the results.

 

[woodnbow]

The whole revolver was a little worse for the wear, and I marred the bluing even more trying to free the barrel. I've reblued several barrels and parts already, and actually enjoy the process as well as the results.

Looks like you know what you’re doing. Nice,

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

The whole revolver was a little worse for the wear, and I marred the bluing even more trying to free the barrel. I've reblued several barrels and parts already, and actually enjoy the process as well as the results.

No complains here with what you accomplished.
Looks good!!

 

[windini]

I (tried to) make some progress during the run-up to Thanksgiving, but had a little setback. Apparently I failed Degreasing 101!



Didn't think that was gonna blend out with subsequent coats...

How 'bout the cylinder? Yike.


Well, at least I could cold blue the screws so I'd feel like I made some headway...

Nope. I guess alcohol evaporates a tad faster than I expected!


Well, back to the drawing board bath:


After the re-wire-wheeling, it was time to revisit degreasing.

Some feller on the internet said he heard about another guy who degreased the old-fashioned way. What did I have to lose?


That went well! Much better second first coat results...


Now for a good boiling.


Hot Fuzz! (I did degrease the #0000 steel wool and carding brush bristles! I used acetone for that so the workin' steel wouldn't rust.)


Got a nice base color. (whew!)


Second coat & rusting in progress!



This was my worst start to a rust blue ever. Though the initial results were embarrasing, I decided to post about it anyhow - not like my ego isn't used to a tumble every so often! I hope it encourages anyone who's sitting on the fence about trying something new. Mistakes happen all the time; might as well show how we overcome them. There's a lot to be learned from our failures.

I get more learn-y every project!

 

[windini]

Managed to spend a few hours with the Bulldog-to-be this last week.

First of all, not gonna lie: this was the clunkiest rust bluing job I've done. Something(s) just weren't right - I suspect I may have contaminated my solution or it simply aged out. Maybe the old, multiple-parts-house steel parts were wonky. Or it was me! Jury's out. In any case, though I strove for care & cleanliness, the rusting was no where near as uniform as it has been on other parts (90% long gun barrels). The intricacy of the cylinder was a challenge.

So I gave up after 3 treatments and decided I would strip it & start over with a new batch of solution. In the meantime, thought I, better oil it to stop the rust process.

Lo! and Behold! They both turned out OK.


Certainly not my best work, but the splotches & streaks blended miraculously well with the last carding and a thick coat of oil left overnight.

So I deburred some of the rough and damaged edges on the brass frame.


I took it off site to my bench grinder & wire wheeled it (no pics); the wheel I have is too coarse to be a final finish, so I'll have to get a .008" or .006" wire wheel to dress it. Since the plan is to blacken it, I don't want a 1965 bath faucet-bling polished surface! The idea is for it to be a bit subdued.

I spent a little time with some sandpaper on the walnut grip panels (left the the stripper in storage*); I stopped when I saw I had barely broken through to one of the frame post holes. You can see it in the lower right corner of the right grip if you look close.


It's not a major problem at this point. After I chemical strip the rest of the finish off, I'll pack some Aussie wood filler into it from the back side 'til it oozes out the top. When it dries, I'll gently sand it to shape, then fine sand, raise grain, finer sand, dye, and ... oil? Varnish? TBD.

Next up is getting the fine wire wheel & cleaning up the brass bits. Oh - and I can work on the faux color case hardening on the hammer, arbor pin, & trigger.

And I suppose I need to pick up some brass bar stock & start whittling out my new arbor retainer device.

Then there's the front sight figuring...







____________________________________________________
*Boy, was she pissed!

 

[windini]

So I went looking for 3/16" brass bar stock to make the cylinder quick-release out of. No luck. Grainger had it, for a great price! (< $9) But they have to deliver it to my local store & estimated ETA is Dec 20. It's on its way, but I wanted to work on it sooner.

So I got a 3' piece of 3/16" x 1" mild steel at Lowe's and got to it!

I made a pattern out of carboard (back of a used up legal pad) from the Taylor's one I had, then traced that onto the steel with a fine point blue Sharpie.

I cut out the rough profile with a mini hacksaw:


Then I got out the files and started shaping to the lines and flattening the edges.


I use the blue chalk to "lube" the file teeth & reduce chip clogging. I do use a file card; the toothbrush was for dusting away chips from the surface of the metal part so I could see the lines better.

I will get the profile close, drill the retaining screw hole and shape the arbor pin retention hook, then try it in the frame. I expect this is a prototype and I will have to refine it on another attempt, but that's part of the learning curve.

If I get one that functions well and looks good enough, I'll probably polish up to white, then do the faux color case harden finish on it like the hammer, trigger, and arbor pin are going to get. Or I may try to heat blue it. I kinda think that will be a nice color enhancement against the blued cylinder & barrel and the blackened brass frame & trigger guard.

Still imagining up a front sight idea...

 

[windini]

Guess it's been a while since I posted an update. Well, here goes.

As mentioned upthread, I want to blacken the brass frame and trigger guard. A friend in the piedmont (NC, not Italy!) happened to have some real brass blackening solution from his family's foundry, and said he'd let me have some.

So I took the frame & guard to the wire wheel, then degreased them. Degreasing was hot water, dish soap, and a good scrubbing & brushing with Bon Ami.


I used a Sterilite plastic shoebox for a dip tank, and measured out enough clear water to cover the parts.


It turned out to be 4 pints. The usage guide suggested a 20% solution, so I measured out another pint of blackening solution concentrate.


Bathtime! Recommendation was for 3-5 minutes.


You can see how fast it works! I took this pic as soons as I could deploy the camera after gently laying the frame in. The trigger guard went in first and was already blacker by a good bit.

After around 5 minutes, it was looking pretty good.


But ... wait ... drat. As soon as I touched the trigger guard, the blackening wiped right off.


Well, back to the drawing board. It didn't take much to clean both parts; the black just wasn't deep or durable.

One thing I noticed was that some of the interior surfaces, like the inside of the trigger guard shown above, held the color much better than the outside areas. I did the outer surfaces on a wire wheel mounted on a bench grinder; the inside areas were done with a rather worn brass-plated steel wire brush in a Dremel tool. Apparently the wee brush was sharper or coarser than the larger wheel, and that texture helped hold the black.

Texture matters.

After cleaning - and a little more reading & pondering - I decided to try and etch the brass surface somewhat. It is written that that will make the brass more susceptible to oxidation, to allow for a deeper penetration. So I put them in a vinegar bath. The vinegar was plain ol' Cuisine de Leon white vinegar, only 5% acidity, so I knew it would take some time. I left them soaking for about 7 hours.

I saved & reused the 20% solution, though I didn't know for sure if it would still work after having been used once, then stored for hours. But, nothing like a real-world experiment to answer a question!

Back in da bath.


To be continued...

 

[windini]

The Blackening; Part Deux:

The results of the 2nd blackening, after etching, were...

Outstanding!


This time, I did not handle them while wet. I used aluminum wire to pick them out of the solution and hang them up, then let them dry overnight.

When dry, they still looked good, but were kinda fuzzy. I wiped the inside surface of the back strap, then hit it with some degreased 0000 steel wool, and even scrubbed lightly with a carding brush.


That skeleton-y part was no longer yellow brass-colored under the fuzz! In fact, it looked like steel does after a rust blue treatment + boiling. It looked like the parts needed carding.

I gently brushed the top/hidden area of the trigger guard to see how durable the black was this time.


Not bad, so I switched to the showy part.


It's actually quite nice, very "oil-rubbed bronze" looking. But it wasn't the goal, so I decided to keep going. I figured, if it was going to act like rust bluing, I would treat it like rust bluing. I also decided to limit my testing to the trigger guard until I determined if this would work or I was barking up a faux tree...

Back in the bath! But on a smaller scale for a smaller part.


Heck yeah! I like the way this is going.


The bronze-y areas all went to black again. After drying, the trigger guard looked great.


The black is very uniform, and the fuzz is not as deep or loose.

That's where things stand now. I will card the TG again, and keep dunking it until it stays black or I decide it ain't gonna. Afterwards, I'll try the oil soaking like you do for rust bluing. I hope an oiling will make the finish durable enough for handling. If not, I'll have to degrease it and - if that doesn't destroy the blackened finish, apply a topcoat of some kind.

Once I know what works (or not) on the TG, I can do the more complicated frame.

 

[windini]

Oh, one other development. After the second dip & drying, the trigger guard sent me a message.

I don't get no respect!

 

[StrawHat]

FYI, Birchwood Casey makes, or made, a brass blackening agent. I used it on the grip frame in Post #2 of this thread, 50 years ago.

Another Great Experience With E.M.F

I feel fortunate that their headquarters is 10 minutes from my house. They sent me an email blast that they had a Great Western 9mm cylinder that fits my Gambler's Royale .357, and it was on sale. I showed up without calling and they now keep their doors locked and require an appointment, so I...

www.thehighroad.org

It has held up well but needs to be retouched, or maybe not.

Kevin

 

[Miguel Loco]

Good job!

 

[windini]

Good job!

Thank you!

. I used it on the grip frame in Post #2 of this thread

Do you have recent pics of it? I'd love to see how it's held up.

I considered the Birchwood Casey product... but I'd'a had to pay for that! Got this stuff free. And when I went to pick it up, I got there just in time for some hot action!



EDIT: Hey @StrawHat , I see your post was from yesterday; I misread it. Guess that is a recent pic! (Looks good)