Another Brace question

[hms365]

Sorry for another one but I am confused and looking for some input trying to help a buddy that won’t ask for help. He has a cheap brace that is just on a range toy AR, nothing special. When all this brace stuff came up he was going to just dump it, doesn’t want to register anything if he can avoid it. He also has a lower that is stenciled “pistol only”.

In trying to think through all the scenarios where the government changes its mind or the rules, he doesn’t want to suddenly own an NFA lower he can’t sell or trade, or change states without permission. Like I said, likes to be left alone and feels a lot of this is just trying to make life complicated.

It seems like if the brace is registered on the pistol only lower there really isn’t a downside if the rules are changed. That stenciled lower will always be a pistol, really hard to claim it is an SBR. If another definition changes, he will just go back to the original plan of destroying the brace.

Does this sound like a good plan for someone in this situation?

Sorry, if has been discussed at length, but i did not see this scenario in previous discussions.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

My brother is going though this brace nonsense. He has a 12 inch upper on a AR 15 adjustable stock. He decided to get a rifle length upper for it. Then get a pistol lower to put the 12 inch on.

 

[WestKentucky]

Sorry for another one but I am confused and looking for some input trying to help a buddy that won’t ask for help. He has a cheap brace that is just on a range toy AR, nothing special. When all this brace stuff came up he was going to just dump it, doesn’t want to register anything if he can avoid it. He also has a lower that is stenciled “pistol only”.

In trying to think through all the scenarios where the government changes its mind or the rules, he doesn’t want to suddenly own an NFA lower he can’t sell or trade, or change states without permission. Like I said, likes to be left alone and feels a lot of this is just trying to make life complicated.

It seems like if the brace is registered on the pistol only lower there really isn’t a downside if the rules are changed. That stenciled lower will always be a pistol, really hard to claim it is an SBR. If another definition changes, he will just go back to the original plan of destroying the brace.

Does this sound like a good plan for someone in this situation?

Sorry, if has been discussed at length, but i did not see this scenario in previous discussions.

What is stenciled makes no difference at all. The facts of the item determine its status.

That said, if he wants to register it and then changes his mind at a later date then all he has to do is reconfigure the gun to a legal unregistered gun. That means a 16” or longer barrel, or remove the brace. Either way works. The only issue with registering the lower is that once you register it you are supposed to engrave some info on it which makes it much less desirable for resale purposes.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Just put a pistol buffer tube and a foam pad on it. No legal issues with it as a pistol like that.

 

[dogtown tom]

....The only issue with registering the lower is that once you register it you are supposed to engrave some info on it which makes it much less desirable for resale purposes.

Oddly, not this time: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/onc...k-firearm-i-manufactured-short-barreled-rifle

Once the firearm is registered, am I required to mark the firearm since I manufactured a short-barreled rifle (SBR)?
If the SBR equipped with a “stabilizing brace” is registered by May 31, 2023, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker’s marking exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule. If the firearm is a personally made firearm, the possessor must mark in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 & 479.102 prior to submitting the E-Form 1.
Last Reviewed March 23, 2023

 

[WestKentucky]

Oddly, not this time: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/onc...k-firearm-i-manufactured-short-barreled-rifle

Well shoot. That’s the main reason I ended up NOT registering my contender. But now it’s kinda wild anyways since I’m moving soon, so if I decide to keep a brace in use I guess I can just spend a couple hundred bucks once I get moved.

 

[kwb377]

I just Form 1'd two pistols...one factory Ruger pistol, and one that I built from a BCM lower. From my understanding, I don't have to engrave the Ruger because, as the ATF now figures, it was an SBR when Ruger assembled it at the factory and they're the manufacturer...but the BCM I'll have to engrave because I was the "manufacturer" when I assembled it into a pistol...which is now an SBR...but they said was a pistol back then...but now they say it was always an SBR.

My brother is going though this brace nonsense. He has a 12 inch upper on a AR 15 adjustable stock. He decided to get a rifle length upper for it. Then get a pistol lower to put the 12 inch on.

Since he was already in violation of the NFA (12" upper with a stocked lower), what made him decide to comply with the Brace ruling?

 

[dogtown tom]

I just Form 1'd two pistols...one factory Ruger pistol, and one that I built from a BCM lower. From my understanding, I don't have to engrave the Ruger because, as the ATF now figures, it was an SBR when Ruger assembled it at the factory and they're the manufacturer.

Incorrect.
If it was a factory SBR it would have transferred as an NFA forearm on a Form 4 to you. It did not because it was a pistol.
It was also a pistol from the day you first attached the arm brace to that pistol and remained a pistol with an arm brace until ATF published 2021R-08F on 1/31/2023. Effective that date, the definition of SBR was amended to include pistols with an attached arm brace.

The reason you are not required to engrave your pistol is the Rule says you don't. Not because Ruger had anything to do with it.

..but the BCM I'll have to engrave because I was the "manufacturer" when I assembled it into a pistol.

Wrong.
You are not a manufacturer unless licensed to do so. BCM is the manufacturer, and as such, ALREADY ENGRAVED THE REQUIRED MARKINGS.
Whether you assembled the pistol is irrelevant.

If you put an arm brace on an 80% pistol ghost gun, then you would be required to engrave certain information per the rule.

..which is now an SBR...but they said was a pistol back then...but now they say it was always an SBR.

Sigh.
No, it was not "always an SBR" and ATF has never written that. Thats the freaking point of amending the definition of SBR via Rule 2021R-08F.

Again, the reason you are not required to engrave is because as the MAKER of an NFA firearm during the forbearance period, Rule 2021R-08F allows you to use your EXISTING MARKINGS.

It isn't this difficult.

 

[dogtown tom]

My brother is going though this brace nonsense. He has a 12 inch upper on a AR 15 adjustable stock. He decided to get a rifle length upper for it.

An adjustable shoulder stock with a 12" upper is already an SBR and not eligible for the forbearance under Rule 2021R-08F. Your brother is already in possession of an NFA SBR and better put a brake on his gun building until he understand what is legal and what isn't.

Then get a pistol lower to put the 12 inch on.

No such thing.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

He took the 12 inch off the adjustable stock. I recommended he do it. Yes he has a lot to learn. He got into guns late in life. Growing up he never had in interest in them. Myself i did. I was always shooting with my dad. And hunted with him.

 

[dogtown tom]

He took the 12 inch off the adjustable stock. I recommended he do it. Yes he has a lot to learn. He got into guns late in life. Growing up he never had in interest in them. Myself i did. I was always shooting with my dad. And hunted with him.

Being lawful shouldn't mean walking a minefield.
Sadly, the NFA is just that.