Another first shotgun question

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valnar

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Same question, slightly different specs.

I only own handguns and a couple rifles. I don't know anything about shotguns and would like to get one, or maybe two. There is a possibility I would shoot trap/skeet as that would the primary "fun" way of using the shotgun, but home defense is also a possibility.

I only just today looked at the price of good O/U & SxS shotguns. Holy crap! So I guess I am looking at a pump. I know that the Rem 870 and Mossberg 500 are the two most popular shotguns mentioned, but if I wanted something a step up from those, what would be the next best (better) choice?

I also understand from reading that you can get a shotgun that can change barrels. I suppose between the purpose of HD and sport, that would be a nice feature too.

Second question - considering I want a pump and not a semi, which of the three sporting events (trap, skeet, clay) would I have the best chance at doing? I don't expect to win anything, nor do I want to.
 
I am not sure what level of pump shotgun you are looking at when you are shopping. The Mossberg and the 870 Remington both come in a lot nicer versions than what you see at the bargain stores like Walmart. There is a lot of finish difference between an 870 Express and an 870 Wingmaster for example.

Other pump models to consider are the Ithaca 37, Browning BPS, , Benelli, etc.

Being as it is your first shotgun, my advice is to buy yourself an 870 Express for a pittance and learn how to use it. You will not have much invested and already own a great HD weapon when you decide to get another "prettier" shotgun. Experienced shotgunners can shoot skeet and other games with a pump. Beginners are going to have a harder time becoming proficient at the doubles game. Shooting singles with a pump is not a problem for beginners.

Do yourself a favor and read, read, and then read again about shotguns as you stray off into the addictive world of shotgun fun. The most important thing is ....Don't forget to enjoy it!
 
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Thanks for the recommendations and advice.

Yah, I want it to be pretty too. I am never one for buying a beginner's version then buying a better one later. When your purchases, or more specifically number of guns is scrutinized by your wife, its best to jump in with both feet and get the good one first. I have never regretted that tactic yet!

So if the budget is $1000, what would be a good one?
 
I have a couple of 870s, a 12. ga Express and a 20 ga. Wingmaster. I also have a BPS in 12 and another in 20.

Either the 870 or the BPS would be an excellent choice for a first shotgun. Several of my kids are lefties, so the BPS is what they use. Safety on top, bottom feed and ejection, totally ambidextrous. There are tons of accessories available for the 870. My 12 ga. Express sometimes wears an 18" barrel with rifle sights and an extended magazine when I go to Alaska and need something that can tangle with a bear, and sometimes it wears a 28" Rem Choke barrel when I go bird hunting.

My 12 ga. BPS has a short 22" barrel and a straight grip stock, which is perfect for quail hunting, although I have taken lots of pheasants and ducks with it too.

Cabelas had a sale on the 870 Express for $249 a few weeks ago (after a $30 rebate). The BPS usually goes for around $525. I have not seen an 870 Wingmaster advertised for a while.
 
Yah, I want it to be pretty too.
Click to expand...
There are some barely used 870 Wingmasters out there with a deep blue finish and shiny furniture... and they are sho'nuf pretty.

As already mentioned, there are tons of after-market accessories which make the 870 a highly versatile platform to enjoy in a multitude of ways.

And if you get bit by the reloading bug, it gets even better!

You can get a good start on all of this within your stated budget.
 
Pretty and 1000 - you could always go for a decent semi - THAT will give you several targets more than a pump on any clay game where doubles is in the mix - skeet, 5-stand and sporting. Even a decent used O/U can be close in that ball park
 
Have you looked at single shot 12ga? Shooting skeet and trap is fun and challenging, and the low cost lets you invest more in practice. :)
 
OK, I have my homework. I'll go check out the high-end 870's and the Browning BPS in my local store. A 22" is okay for HD, but I'll see if the Browning has a 18 incher.

Aesthetics, it seems people like the Browning. From a functional point of view (meaning cleaning and changing barrels), how do they compare?

Lastly, I have no problem buying used. Most of my previous purchases (lots of Smith revolvers) have been used because they are better. How about the latest & greatest from Remington and Browning? If there are particular used years or serial number range to look for, I have no problem waiting. It's too cold to shoot now, so I have a season to find it.
 
Go to some gun shows or shops and handle a few. The BPS and Wingmaster feel quite different, and the Browning loads thru the magazine even for singles whereas the 870 you just pop one in the port. I don't like the way the BPS feeds, but I'm primarily a hunter, and I will add I think it is as well designed and built as anything.
You can get an excellent used Wingmaster in whatever style you prefer and a few extra barrels and be all set.
 
the Browning loads thru the magazine even for singles whereas the 870 you just pop one in the port.
Click to expand...
That is good to know. So for competition, would the Browning mechanism be a deterrent?
*IF*, for whatever reason I wanted something other than the Remington 870 but with a similar loading mechanism, yet higher build quality, what would my choice be?


PS. Full disclosure - I'm funny about getting the SAME thing everybody else gets. I will if its the best, but the most common is rarely the best. I got a Vz.58 before an AK47. Actually, don't own an AK47 yet...


Life is too short for ugly guns. I gotta make my purchases count.
 
^^^^ reminds me of dove hunting... can't imagine having only 2 shells, given the number of threesomes that fell to my 20ga Sportsman 58.

Regarding competition, Defensive Shotgun matches have caught on locally here this year. Each shooter starts with 5 (max) in the gun, and reload(s) are required during the course-of-fire. Just sayin' there may be other games to consider when choosing a shotgun.

Plenty of pump gunners enjoy the skeet range and have shot 25/25. Also, many Wingmasters have been set up for trap. Of course, there are some pricier, specialized guns, but a multi-pupose pump will carry you nicely into those sports as long as you're not a hi-stakes competitor.

What's "best" depends... Given that there are some $10,000 shotguns, you may need a bigger budget if you want the best. For a lifetime of shooting with a reliable, muli-purpose shotgun, there's good reason the 870 is a common choice. Express, Wingmaster, Police, Marine, customized... you can upgrade in numerous ways.
 
First, there is no "Step Up' from an 870 or 500 when it comes to reliability, durability or utility.

Every shotgunner should have a good pumpgun or six. They are versatile as heck. Like all versatile tools, they may not be as good at a particular mission than a purpose built one. But for now, a pump makes a good entry level shotgun for darn near anyone.

Once your feet are wet clean up to the earlobes, then you may want to try out something else.

In truth, my Beretta O/U only adds a bird or two to my scores over my well worn 870s but I don't have to bend over and pick up empties.
 
I'm now interested in old Winchester 12's as reviews seem very positive. Still poking around.....
 
Winchester 12 for Trap?

OK, I have another question. The history and build quality of the Winchester 12 has me interested in it. It is good for home defense and I think will be passable for Trap initially, until I buy a dedicated O/U. Further reading has me confused though.

1) Can you put a choke on one of these old shotguns? If not, I assume there are always open - and therefore not good for sporting events?

2) I also read that you shouldn't shoot steel through these older shotguns. Normally I wouldn't care, but what do most Skeet/Trap clubs require? I haven't been to one to ask, so I'm asking in general.

If I can't get a choke on a classic Winchester 12 and I can't shoot steel, does that mean it is a bad choice for dual purpose?
 
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I used to overthink and over analyze a purchase. Result........I was asking and researching other folks opinion. I started with a Remington 870. Now I have three. My opinion is....I love my Remington's. My office partner started with a Winchester. He loves his Winchester's. Buy a good brand. Do not rob the bank for your first purchase and have fun and learn to use it well. Others have basically suggested this to you as well.
 
Sorry, I have so many questions. I'd hate to pick the brain of a salesman at my local store and not buy one from them.

So here are a few:

  • If I get a shotgun with a choke "installed", does that mean I cannot change it?
  • If I get an older shotgun without a choke (like an old Winchester 12), can a choke be added/changed easily?
  • Would it be more beneficial to get something modern that has these options?
  • For sporting events, why do "hard hitting" 12 gauge shotguns seem to be the norm? I would think for a non-self defense scenario that 20 gauge would be easier to handle.
 
A fixed choke cannot be changed.
Well it can, but not in the sense you are asking about.
You can send a fixed choke barrel off and have choke tubes installed.
http://www.choketube.com/instal.html

Yes, for an all around shotgun, a new or used modern one with choke tubes and easily interchangeable barrels that is also steel shot rated would be a wise move.

12 ga shotguns are the norm in clay games, hunting, and self defense because no other gage offers so much variety in load selection.

rc
 
Look at an 1187, a basic sportsman model with a 28" Rem Choke barrel .
It will do everything you want it to , has decent balance and swings fine for trap or skeet. You can change to an 18" barrel for home defense and add a sling. No problem shooting doubles or even triples. Add a Hiviz magnetic front sight for $20 and you are good to go.
I have taught a few folks to shoot trap with mine. That will leave you 500 to spend on targets and shells. Lots of lightly used slug barrels out there too.
 
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