Another Misinformed Writer

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HuntCast

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I am growing weary of trying to educate my foolish hunting brethren one at a time. Surely there is an easier way than having to root them out one by one and flood them with the truth?


http://www.newsreview.info/article/20070331/FEATURES02/70330041

Assault weapons critic gets shot down



CRAIG REED
Out There, [email protected]
March 31, 2007

Jim Zumbo recently took a brave stand in hunting and shooting circles.

It cost the longtime outdoors advocate and enthusiast his livelihood.

His stand: Writing that there is “no place for these weapons (assault) among our hunting fraternity.” He wrote that opinion in his personal blog on the Outdoor Life magazine Web site back in February in response to hearing that some hunters used assault weapons to hunt prairie dogs.

“I’ll go so far as to call them ‘terrorist rifles,’” he wrote. “We don’t need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I’ve always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don’t use assault rifles. We’ve always been proud of our ‘sporting firearms.’”

His opinions went over like a plugged rifle. It blew up Zumbo’s reputation and respect with many. National Rifle Association officials cut all ties with the writer who was a 40-year member of the organization. His TV program on the Outdoor Channel was canceled, his long career as hunting editor with Outdoor Life magazine was severed and he lost sponsors.

He wasn’t forgiven despite his public apology. Thousands of gun owners, businesses and manufacturers slammed him and his statement.

Assault weapons have been an issue for years in hunting and shooting circles. Even though most hunters don’t own assault weapons and may have only their .30-06 rifle for hunting deer and elk and their 12 gauge shotgun for hunting birds, many believe one ban will lead to another.

Hard to know if that will actually happen. Banning smoking from restaurants certainly hasn’t led to banning drinking in restaurants.

I am a hunter and the owner of a .300 Magnum that I use for elk hunting. I’ve also hunted with a 7mm and I grew up with .22s, dad’s .30-06, mom’s .30-30 and shotguns in the backporch closet.

Obviously, it’s not a popular stand, but I agree that fully automatic assault weapons don’t belong in hunting. Now if a person wants to collect them or shoot them at a range, OK.

Assault rifles are usually identified with light machine guns and submachine guns that are standard small arms for most modern armies and law enforcement departments. Examples of fully automatic assault rifles include the M16 rifle and the AK-47.

It’s already against Oregon law to use fully automatic firearms while hunting game animals. These weapons fire multiple shots with one pull of the trigger and continue as long as the trigger is depressed. It’s understandable that Zumbo was upset if the report he got about somebody using one of these against prairie dogs was true. Semi-automatics can be used to hunt in Oregon as long as the magazine capacity is no more than five cartridges and the trigger has to be pulled for each firing.

I don’t think these are popular with Oregon hunters anyway. I’ve spent about a week in the woods hunting for each of about 30 years and I can’t remember seeing a hunter with any weapon other than what I would call a hunting rifle. I’ve seen plenty of rifles in pickup gun racks in Douglas County over the years and all of them have been hunting, not assault, rifles.

Daniel Boone did fine with a single shot long rifle. I think we can too with standard hunting rifles.

Hunters, and maybe that’s not the right word, don’t need to be spraying the woods or the prairies with non-stop bullets.

I applaud Zumbo for writing about the controversial subject. He’s spent much of his life as a writer and speaker promoting the outdoors and hunting so he’s given a lot more to those special interest groups than he could take away in one blog.

His writing should have created more discussion, not a “firing.”

I’m still a believer in the right to bear arms. I want to own my rifle and I want to hunt elk each fall if I so desire. But I don’t need to hunt with a cannon or machine gun.
 
So much misinformation. At least the guy was brave enough to put his name and email address on it so people could educate him.
 
I find it very hard to believe that this bozo has any full auto machine guns confused with a 24" scoped AR used to shoot p-dogs or a SKS used for deer. He is more likely just trying to spread the MYTH of the full auto RAMBO AR owner in an atempt to confuse the masses. What a TOOL!

MK:cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:
 
Wow. That's from the Roseburg News Review? Out of Roseburg, Oregon? It's always been a small-time, second-rate newsrag, but jeez I had no idea they'd fallen this far.
 
Hunters, and maybe that’s not the right word, don’t need to be spraying the woods or the prairies with non-stop bullets.
Mmm sounds like propaganda from brady literature.

I’m still a believer in the right to bear arms. I want to own my rifle and I want to hunt elk each fall if I so desire. But I don’t need to hunt with a cannon or machine gun.
Ban whatever you want as long as its not mine. What an incredible display of respect for the 2nd amendment.
 
How's this for a rebuttal:

Dear Craig:

The major issue that shooters had with Mr. Zumbo's article is right here:

"I’ll go so far as to call them ‘terrorist rifles...We don’t need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I’ve always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don’t use assault rifles. We’ve always been proud of our ‘sporting firearms.’"

In that one statement, he equated anyone who uses a military-style rifle for any purpose with terrorists and criminals. Many people do use these rifles for hunting, as well as plinking, target competitions, and defense. Those people were rightly offended by that statement. He has since apologized, and has made great strides in regaining some of the credibility he lost; but, just as in any case where a person wrongly impugns the character of another, it's going to take a while for us to trust him completely again.

Now, some other points:

"Obviously, it’s not a popular stand, but I agree that fully automatic assault weapons don’t belong in hunting. Now if a person wants to collect them or shoot them at a range, OK."

Mr. Zumbo was not speaking of machineguns when he wrote that article. He was talking about semi-automatic rifles, Craig: one pull of the trigger, one shot.

"It’s already against Oregon law to use fully automatic firearms while hunting game animals. These weapons fire multiple shots with one pull of the trigger and continue as long as the trigger is depressed."

True, but again, we're talking about semi-automatics, not machineguns.

"I don’t think these are popular with Oregon hunters anyway."

That's nice, but the people Mr. Zumbo hacked off may or may not have been hunters. I know of many people who own both types of guns, and use them for different purposes. Does that make them hunter/terrorists?

"His writing should have created more discussion, not a “firing.”"

It would have, if there hadn't been a blanket statement tarring everyone who owns a military-style semi-automatic rifle with the "terrorist" brush.
 
Maybe Zumbo has seen the light. Never heard of Craig Reed but no matter. He is another like a few other people I know or have read articles by. Superior attitudes but much less knowledge than they claim to have. They just can't seem to understand the difference between semi automatic and full automatic rifles. Semi automatic rifles like the Rem 8A have been in use since 1908 but these "gentlemen hunters/writers" think only of bolt actions or a high grade double rifle for Afrika or Asia. A lever gun is acceptable for we of the lower classes. People like this are in a way, more of a danger to our gun ownership than some of the avowed gun haters. They in their own bull headed way divide gun owners with their ideas of what guns you and I should own or shoot and convince other less knowledgable gun owners or hunters of these ideas. I personally can't afford to hunt quail or chukkars with a 3 or 4 thousand dollar shotgun and on the other hand I don't have one of the black rifles but you can bet your A$$ if I had the money I would!!:p
 
My response to his email:

Dear Craig,

What is it with you hunters? You guys JUST DON'T GET IT.

You said in your March 31 article: "Obviously, it’s not a popular stand, but I agree that fully automatic assault weapons don’t belong in hunting. Now if a person wants to collect them or shoot them at a range, OK.

Assault rifles are usually identified with light machine guns and submachine guns that are standard small arms for most modern armies and law enforcement departments. Examples of fully automatic assault rifles include the M16 rifle and the AK-47."

You article looks like it came directly off of Sara Brady's website. Jim Zumbo was not talking about fully automatic 'assault rifles' - he was talking about semi-auto AR-15's - used for VARMINT HUNTING. It was his ignorance of the AR-15 rifle platform and use of the "assault rifle" terminology that got him into trouble. And here you go, spouting the same mis-information.

NOBODY is talking about taking a machinegun into the woods to hunt bambi. That's not what Zumbo was talking about - and I challenge you to find any cases of hunters doing that. It's just not realistic. All you do is hurt the Second Amendment cause when you write things like this, and especially when you resort to using gun-grabber buzzwords like 'assault rifle'.

And for the record, if you don't think Sara and the VPC aren't out to get your daddy's 30.06 you need to think again. From my perspective (and I'll admit I'm not a hunter) your 30.06 could very EASILY be considered a sniper rifle. High power cartridge on a scoped rifle that was most likely based on a military design. I hope you remember Ted Kennedy ranting about cop killer bullets the past couple of years...and hope you realize that the 30.06 caliber was on his 'hit list'. You and I both know that the 30.06 is a much more 'dangerous' weapon than a fully automatic machinegun - you'd be able to engage out to what, 600+ yards? A machinegun is only effective out to maybe 1/3 that distance. I want to make it clear that I'm not knocking your hunting rifle - I own several high caliber rifles and am just trying to point out the gun-grabber perspective.

Your time and position in the outdoor sporting industry would be much better spent trying to spread FACTUAL information, especially the kind of information that would bring hunters and non-hunting shooters TOGETHER. We are all in this together and pissing off the black rifle and full-auto crowds is only going to hurt your case in the long run.
 
My response.....


Dear Craig,
Since there is obviously a time delay between when you write an article and when it is printed, you may already be aware of the subsequent statements issued, and the problems with your article being published six weeks later.
If not, I'd like to clarify it for you......

First, Mr. Zumbo did not mention automatic rifles in his unfortunate story. Secondly, as a fellow hunter, you must also be aware that there is NO SUCH THING as an ASSAULT WEAPON! Any firearm can be used to assault someone. Unless you are attempting to sway the unknowing with propaganda, this term is as meaningless as calling your cherished hunting rifles that have scopes mounted on them "sniper guns".

As to one of your more odd phrases, "I don’t think these are popular with Oregon hunters anyway.", since when is a firearms popularity in Oregon a determining factor on whether you are going to side with the anti-gun forces or not?

At the end of the day, the most important fact is this. Words mean things. Examine what you have written here, and contrast that against your stated desire to support hunting. You can not have it both ways............ the second amendment protects all firearms, or none. There is no in between, and there is no right to hunt.
If you want to keep hunting a privilege available for your children and grand children, you had better start NOW, just as Mr. Zumbo has done, by denouncing the words you have written.


Sincerely,
Joe Duckworth
Host/Producer
HuntCast - The Outdoors Show
 
I'm wondering if they took it down. I clicked on the link and it didn't work. Worked this afternoon.
 
Daniel Boone did fine with a single shot long rifle.

He didn't have a choice. He might have done well with a single shot musket, but that does not rule out the fact that he might have done better with a semi-auto cartridge gun. He also did fine with commuting and traveling by foot and horseback. So maybe we should all give up cars, at least for going out to hunting localities?
 
The writer seems a bit mis-informed. I don't know where he got the idea that people were talking about fully automatic firearms for hunting.
 
I want the 30 seconds it took me to read that back, I want that part of my life back. WTH is he talking about, I would agree full auto weapons have no place in hunting...unless it is zombies, squirrels, chipmunks and charlie! I think we may need to advise him.
 
The article is back up, and there is an option for writing comments. I just put mine in.

Looks like they have to be reviewed before they will be posted. I wonder if my response will ever see the light of day....


John
 
HuntCast said:
Wow...... 3 e-mails and they wimp out.
Took the article down and made it registration only, lol.
I actually did register this afternoon, as well as followed the activation link. Now there are wierd things going on with my sign-in ( Could log on this afternoon, but now it says I don't exist. ), and when I did a search for zumbo it came up with nothing. I'm wondering if the pulled the article altogether.
 
Something weird is going on with that site. Now, when I click on the link it goes to the article but there are no comments listed. Half hour ago I couldn't even log in.
 
I’ve also hunted with a 7mm and I grew up with .22s, dad’s .30-06, mom’s .30-30 and shotguns in the backporch closet.

...and I bet they all wore mossy-oak to church on sundays. How cute. I love the laundry list of calibers. I think he points them out so as to say, "see, these are for hunting, don't ban them." Well, I have .22, 8x56, 9mm, 7.62x39, and 5.45x39 in my closet and not a damn one of them is going into any hunting implement. Look, I'm not going to pretend I know a thing about hunting... I don't. Never shot an animal. Probably never will. I don't care if other people do. Good for them, enjoy your sport. What I don't get is why this guy and others like him seem to think that 2A is about hunting. It's not! There is NO constitutional protection for hunting. The constitution has as much to do with protecting the right to hunt as it does protecting the right to skateboard. They're sports. The guy could have saved his breath and just posted: "I like sports. I like to hunt. These are my hunting guns. I don't own black rifles. Daniel Boone/Davy Crocket/Richard Simmons only needed one shot." Well bully to him. Let's light an NFA-registered fire under his ass and explain 2A to him.
 
I don't own black rifles. Daniel Boone/Davy Crocket/Richard Simmons only needed one shot." Well bully to him. Let's light an NFA-registered fire under his ass and explain 2A to him.

ding ding ding!!!!
We have a winner :)
Absolutely right on the money.
 
This is the comment I posted (although I still see the comments listed as 0):

“Hard to know if that will actually happen. Banning smoking from restaurants certainly hasn’t led to banning drinking in restaurants.”

Not exactly a fair analogy. Banning smoking in restaurants has led to other bans (or at least attempts to ban) on smoking. Banning one type of semi-auto rifle can and, may lead to the banning of other popular semi-auto rifles that are typically known as hunting rifles (such as the Remington 7400, or the Mini-14/30). Furthermore, the Remington 700 is a rifle based on a military design (bolt action rifles were military issue for many years, and are still deployed to this day. And yes, the gun banners have mentioned that they want to go after scoped hunt/sniper rifles). Therefore, it isn’t a stretch to suggest that military type weapons are suitable for hunting, nor is it a stretch to suggest that the gun banners will stop with any type of arm (since they’ve stated such intentions).

“Obviously, it’s not a popular stand, but I agree that fully automatic assault weapons don’t belong in hunting. Now if a person wants to collect them or shoot them at a range, OK.”

Mr. Zumbo wasn’t talking about fully automatic assault weapons. He was referring to semi-automatic rifles that are similar in appearance to military weapons (specifically the AR-15, which is not full auto). Suggesting, or implying that this whole “uproar” was over people wanting to use fully automatic rifles for hunting is just plain dishonest (badly misinformed at best). Many people use these types of semi-auto rifles for hunting, and they are well suited for it. Just because you don’t chose to use them doesn’t mean it’s wrong for others to do so. Others could easily make similar arguments advocating the ban of scoped rifles in hunting. You are falling prey to the “divide and conquer” strategy of those who wish to attack the Second Amendment.

“ I don’t think these are popular with Oregon hunters anyway. I’ve spent about a week in the woods hunting for each of about 30 years and I can’t remember seeing a hunter with any weapon other than what I would call a hunting rifle. I’ve seen plenty of rifles in pickup gun racks in Douglas County over the years and all of them have been hunting, not assault, rifles.”

Chalk it up to evolution. It’s not uncommon for people to eventually start using military style arms for hunting. More and more people are using semi-auto rifles for hunting arms. Just because you’ve never noticed it doesn’t mean there are people out there who don’t use them for hunting. The SKS and the AK-47 are very suitable for deer, and people do use them for such. The AR-15 is a very popular varmint rifle. Furthermore, I imagine that many of those hunting rifles that you are seeing were of a design taken from what at one time would have been the military (read assault) rifle of it’s day.

“Daniel Boone did fine with a single shot long rifle. I think we can too with standard hunting rifles.”

Are you suggesting that we should all use Kentucky Long Rifles to hunt with? While I support your right to hunt with such arms, it is wrong of you to suggest that the rest of us be forced to do the same. There’s a lay-term for people like that, it’s called “control freak”. The types of rifle that Zumbo called for a “divorce from”, and a ban for are little different in function that the Remington 7400.

“Hunters, and maybe that’s not the right word, don’t need to be spraying the woods or the prairies with non-stop bullets.”

This is just more misinformation (which at this point can legitimately be called propaganda due not only to it’s long ago being debunked, but also due to it’s context).

“His writing should have created more discussion, not a “firing.””

Actions (in life) are very rarely without ramifications. He alienated the client base of those who employed him, and as a result could have cost his employers earnings. He was fired because he “bit the hand that feeds”, hard. While Remington, the NRA, and others were the ones that did employ and fire him, it was “the voice of the people” that called for it. The entities that fired him were inundated with a “grass-roots” movement calling for his dismissal. Bill Clinton and the Democrats experienced a similar phenomenon as a result of the Crime Bill that originally banned such weapons in 1994. If people are willing to go to the polls and vote out of office a party which had been in power for 40 years, you can be sure they’ll act in similar fashion towards a sporting writer for suggesting something of similar transgression.

“I’m still a believer in the right to bear arms. I want to own my rifle and I want to hunt elk each fall if I so desire. But I don’t need to hunt with a cannon or machine gun.”

Sounds more like you’re just a believer in your right to keep and bear the type of arms you approve of. That’s not the same as being “a believer in the right to bear arms”. And again, for your clarification: this topic has nothing to do with hunting with “a cannon or machine gun.”
 
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