Another Trip to Britain - Cops with no guns

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Dean1818

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There are a few shows in England that mimic "COPS" shown in the US.


I have seen a few shows, and its clear the london thugs have ZERO respect for the police.

I realize there are many folks that dont respect the police in the US, but it seems like the Brits take it to another level.

In almst every show a Brit (or multiple brits) are abusive and throws punches at the cop. (bobby)

The cops are so courteous even after a fight.

I was thinking that the cops in the US wouldnt put up with the crap the Brit cops do, and I do believe the respect begins with the fact that the US police man is armed

thoughts?
 
I think you're right. My experience has been that people are quick to get mouthy and throw punches if they know no one is armed. That's how things seemed to me when I lived in Canada and on the trips I've made to England. More knife-related crimes, but less shooting.
 
Whoah what happened to all the replies to this post, they all disappeared, did something happen when I was away?
 
When a criminal runs from a bobby, the bobby yells, "Stop! Or I'll...yell stop again!?"
Don't know about the replies, but last night I couldn't access the sight. Perhaps some internet Bermuda Triangle or something?
 
Disclaimer: European, and very frequent visitor to London and the rest oif the UK. Got some cop friends there, too. I do want to add some things.
Of course, it's a TV show and I can imagine the brass wanting to portray their men as the corteous, old-time Bobbies one used to see. Fact is, there have never been as many armed police on the UK streets as nowadays. UK police are also somewhat notorious for packing a mean punch, if you catch my drift. That shouldn't be a surprise, given the fact that, indeed, for a long time most UK policemen had to rely on their wits and fists, since not much else was made available to them. How was it said - "most people respect the badge, everybody respects the gun ?". Well, if people don't respect the badge (common behaviour nowadays) and you don't have the gun, you need something else. I can tell you guys one thing: I'd rather be arrested in Oakland than in Manchester.
 
Have an acquaintance who was a London Police constable some years ago. According to him, not only did a Bobbie have to swing a mean punch or truncheon, he had to be fast on his feet; if a suspect was able to outrun you, it meant a one-day suspension without pay.
 
I was posting last night about how I work with the police in the capacity of my own job, and I hear all sorts of things from them. This is also the country where thugs with nothing better to do, call in bogus fire alerts so they can vandalize the trucks that come to help, and even try attack the firemen. It's a weird situation, but I'm moving soon so I won't have to be as frustrated about the situation.

Here is the original thread in the archive for those of you who were wondering where it all went! http://old.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=592500
 
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I have lived in the UK 7 years now; had to laugh the other night when
Inspector Barnaby on "Midsomer Murders" threatened to call out the armed response unit on someone; it would have taken much too long for them to get there.
I live in Grantham, which is rural Lincolnshire (think rural farming area; Country living for sure) response time for the ARU from Peterborough is under 30 minutes (How reassuring)
Great story about how they were called on friends of mine who were playing airsoft; they brought a K9 unit and searched all 13 houses in Welby, my friends' last, and they came in and had tea and discussed how authentic his airsoft AK47 was.
I also have a friend who is a cop; there seems to be a much more understanding policy if heads get busted during a police op; but they seem to be expected to be able to take care of themselves with fists and truncheon.
Personal Observation: There seems to be a greater tolerance for bent cops, physical violence, and petty crime here; an undercurrent of the criminal I don't find in America.
For all of their stated belief in civility, I find the UK a fairly scary place to be, and violent crime never that far beneath the surface. Cops are despised here, and I believe are seen as agents of Social control in a society that is controlling beyond what most Americans would tolerate. I personally believe the British position that neither their cops or citizens need firearms as a crime deterrent to be a fabulous conceit, but it is what it is.
Remember the anti-gun attitude is much harder to change than the anti-gun laws are. That fabulous conceit is reinforced as time passes.

Who needs respect for the law in a police state?

TF
 
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I believe are seen as agents of Social control in a society that is controlling beyond what most Americans would tolerate.
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Unfortunately, I believe it is a minority these days. Our "enlightened" population seems to want what you have over there. Most of them look at the statistics for homicide and gun crime and believe the UK has got it right. They fail to understand two things; One, Britain has always had a lower homicide rate than the US, regardless of gun laws and two; They seem to feel that homicide is the only "real" crime. They don't realize how much violence exists in Britain and so much of civilized Europe in the form of rape, assault, etc. If they'd review more carefully those statistics they so love, they'd realize you're much more likely to be a victim of violence in the UK than the US.
 
If you need a gun to command respect get a new job.
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See also Water-man's post: respect for authority, values, the fellow man has gone down the drain the last 50-60 years. One may argue that respect should first and foremost be earned, but no matter how you twist it, the simple fact is that some people (more and more, sadly) respect nothing or nobody anymore. How are you going to keep somebody like that from doing whatever he likes ? Face it, a big part of law enforcement and the justice system consists of deterrence - making people think twice before breaking the law: the threat of prison sentences, financial penalties.... on the street level this means arming police or otherwise ensuring that thugs realise they have a big chance of pulling the shortest straw when taking them on.
 
from what it appears, the Bobbies get Mace



What I believe that has played out in England is a generation pass.

The guns were outlawed in England, driven by a nutjob who killed children I am told a few decades back.

All it takes to rid a country of firearms is a tragic, well publicized event, and a generation of brainwashing.

Unfortunately we have the "setting" in the USA for it to happen here as well.

For those that say "It could never happen here" you should wake up.


I have a client in the UK that was a regular shooter in England before the ban occurred. They were ALL surprised that it happened.

When our supreme court voted 5-4..... not 9-0 on a "constitutional" challenge, I know we have a problem. What happens if JUST ONE
conservative judge is replaced by another anti-gun person?

When the media continues to slant stories negatively

When the media almost never prints a positive gun situation

When the title "gun-nut" is as common as it is

When many of our teachers of our children continue to use every opportunity to put gun ownership in a bad light

Our best fight in my opinion starts this way

1) Responsible gun ownership - don't be the person the media uses
as THEIR posterboy

2) Teach all of your family members the enjoyment of shooting

3) Take a "non-shooter" to the range as many times as possible

I have taken multiple non shooters to the range over the past 2 years,
many of these non-shooters are now responsible gun owners and a few also have CCLs

To continue in the sport that we all love, we need to continue to grow our numbers which refutes the negative myths about gun ownership that is being dumped on us and our families.

4) Support your local ranges and gun shops (They ARE under attack)

5) I also tell everyone to be careful on face to face sales. Obviously, you
cant tell what type of person you are selling to. But......If something doesn't seem right.......DONT SELL THEM THE GUN...... there will be other buyers

6) Support the NRA

7) VOTE !

These are just a few things that I think we can do to keep us shooting
 
Some have pepper sprays or CS. Tasers have been more commonly issued recently.
A general issue of firearms to the police would be a severe political blow for any administration that had to authorise it. Also numbers would no doubt be declared psychologically unsuitable and would have to be discharged, also some would refuse to do so on conscientious grounds and would, no doubt, have to be paid off.
The ideal (although increasingly breached) regimen of an unarmed police force which works by persuasion and personality, or if necessary a nightstick, remains very popular here, rather than the American policing model of "Do as I say or I'll kill you".
 
UK patrolmen/women carry mace and it's been a long time since I saw one who wasn't carrying an expendable baton or (partially collapsible) PR-24. Armed police (who once were rarely seen but now seem omnipresent) usually carry both Glocks and some HK (MP5 of G36 in various versions).

The ideal (although increasingly breached) regimen of an unarmed police force which works by persuasion and personality, or if necessary a nightstick, remains very popular here, rather than the American policing model of "Do as I say or I'll kill you".
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I highly doubt the American policing model can be summarized as "Do as I say or I'll kill you"; on the contrary, it sounds rather short-sighted to me, not to mention insulting. May I add that in my experience, US police are much more polite and persuasive than their British counterparts. And surely an unarmed police force is popular - especially with criminals the world over, who evidently also prefer their victims to be unarmed or complying...
 
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All it takes to rid a country of firearms is a tragic, well publicized event, and a generation of brainwashing.

Unfortunately we have the "setting" in the USA for it to happen here as well.

For those that say "It could never happen here" you should wake up.
Click to expand...

Not gonna say it could never happen, but I will say that the trend over the last decade stands in stark contrast to your theory. While we always have the usual suspects clamoring for more gun control after a tragedy, Americans by and large have been arming themselves to the teeth and saying "I'm not gonna let it happen to me". Since 2000, we've seen an explosion of new enthusiasts, people buying for protection, people taking the class and getting their permits. It has surprised me more than I can express, especially how the atmosphere is such that Big O has done absolutely nothing to push for gun control, knowing that it's even more a loosing battle now than it was for Klinton.

I know this seems to contradict my ealier post at first, but it really doesn't. In so many respects, what I said before holds true; A frightening number of people in this country are apparently OK with massive government control. But we do still cling to our guns, I suppose believing that we'll take it until we just can't anymore, and if we still have our guns, we can fight back. Maybe we can, maybe not, but that does seem to be the logic.
 
I do believe the respect begins with the fact that the US police man is armed
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Not according to my cop buddies who've been spit, hit, kicked, rammed and generally jumped by violent criminals. In response, they have sprayed, tased, batonned, hit, kicked, wrestled thugs into submission. Sometimes with enthusiasm and at other times with difficulty and danger to themselves. The fact that they were carrying a gun too often causes the BG knowing a little something about the rules of engagement they have to follow to shout/spit, "Wadda ya gonna do, shoot me?!?! You ain't gonna shoot me! I'm gonna whup yur...". Sometimes it's a bluff and too often it isn't. The later results in officers being disabled and killed sometimes by the resisting thug.

You have to keep in mind the folks you see on these shows are the most extreme characters videoed because reasonably compliant thugs don't make for interesting TV, therefore the image of the average criminal is distorted badly by...TV.
 
All I can say is "Stop! or I'll yell stop again!"

The police at the airport had an MP5, or at least a H&K sub gun, from what I could see. I didn't like England when I visited and definitely did not feel safe there. Ireland, on the other hand, was very friendly and my wife and I felt quite safe.
 
I lived in britain for nearly 20 years.

I dont blame most of the violence there on unarmed police. It is a societal cancer. It has been nurtured for decades. I can remember 14 year old kids kicking a 80 yo granny to death in a park. And that isnt even the worst of it.

There is a lot of pride about how great the society is and how great the laws are, most people dont realize that the levels of non gun related crime are enormous.

The british government knew there was a minimum of 1 million illegal firearms in the country back in 1980.
I witnessed enough to know the fishermen bring more than just drugs in. I also know that in many areas the police look elsewhere when this is happening.
I could walk into one small town with a handgun and 14 rounds and end the drug distribution for half of the country and come out with a few rounds to spare. But they dont fear that, the serious criminals are fearless.

I left the country because I was fed up seeing it torn apart by thugs (neds).
It isnt a bad place, it just isnt as quiet and proper as everyone thinks.

It is frustrating and demoralizing.
I couldnt ever comment on the situation there because I was considered to believe what I do because I am an american. Nevermind the fact that I lived there for 19 years from the age of 4.
Honestly id more concerned with seeing armed cops, it usually means you need to not be where you are. They do not arm their police unless they stand a terrible chance of making it down the street without a gun and proper body armor.
 
I have known career police officers that never had to draw their weapon except to qualify periodically. They are very fortunate in that respect. However, I could not imagine doing police work without a firearm. The risks are just too high to do it unarmed.

It does seem that UK police are quicker to use their batons in a confrontation than US police. The practice seems more accepted by the people too. The cultures are very different.
 
I have a close friend with more than 25yrs on the state police force. Couple of weeks ago a meth dealer pulled a knife and asked how long he was willing to wait for him to drop the knife. He simply responded, until I know you're dead. He dropped the knife, wasn't that stupid. An armed officer ended a bad situation because he was armed and no person was hurt. All officers deserve respect, if the badge and uniform don't work the handgun will.
 
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