Answer me these questions five about Bullpups

[9mmepiphany]

it wouldn't be hard to find as it is. What you are saying sort of goes against supply and demand

actually i think it does follow supply and demand rules.

there isn't much demand, so the price is falling.

it isn't hard to find, it's just a click of your mouse away...then the big brown truck pulls up to your driveway and the guy carries it up to your door

 

[Andrewsky]

Thanks Tony.

How do you like the shorter versions of the L85?

 

[everallm]

Tony Williams details lay out all the necessary info well.

In summary,

The bullpup design is not any more difficult to use than any "traditional" rifle, simply different and practice and use is all that is required. Mumbles about "mushy" trigger, slow magazine changes etc tend to come from folks who have never actually used them.......

The "not invented here" syndrome along with inherent conservatism (small "c" not political big "C") is the probably only substantial real reasons the US Army hasn't deigned to really try an BP design.

The BP weapon works well in combat and has better like for like ballistics, terminal velocity, down range energy retention etc than "traditional" equally sized carbines such as the M4 due to the longer barrel.

One unmentioned reason that folk like the SAS occasionally use the M4 or AK is that both are very "generic" weapons that makes it harder for an opponent to identify nationality etc of the sneaky-beakies.

Like all weapon platforms there are compromises, pluses and minuses, on the whole I believe after actual in field use that the pro's outweigh the cons but hey, I ain't the DoD........

 

[taliv]

Mumbles about "mushy" trigger, slow magazine changes etc tend to come from folks who have never actually used them.......

my split times firing bullpups are significantly slower than on similar guns with a standard triggers. and worse, i'm not aware of any way to improve them, where it's easy to replace the standard AR15 trigger with either a 2-stage or an extremely crisp and fast single stage, such as JP's.


who in SAS told you that they use the M4 to make it harder to identify nationality?

 

[esmith]

actually i think it does follow supply and demand rules.

there isn't much demand, so the price is falling.

Well considering that i have never seen it at gunshows or any shops in my area, meaning the supply is down, it is at a high price. I still don't know where you are finding 5.7 at a cheap price.

 

[taliv]

last year i bought a case (2000ct) of 5.7x28 and i think i paid $640 for it. a short time after that, i think it could be had for $600. Now it's about $700.

so last year, it really was cheaper than similar quality 223/5.56
since then, i believe a number of mfgs (e.g. PRVI) have been shipping buttloads of 5.56 ammo to the US, so the effective prices are a bit lower.

ammoman's price right now for lake city M855 for example is $475/1000, and $425 for M193, which are both significantly more than 5.7x28, but PRVI's M193 can be had for $330/1000 which is $20 cheaper/1000 than midway's price on ss195LF.

 

[lvcat2004]

Some of you have said AustRALians use AUG...is this true or is it a typo for AustRIANs??

 

[PercyShelley]

Australia and Austria both use the AUG, although the Australian guns are of different manufacture and referred to as the F88 or austeyr (compare to austen).

 

[UKarmourer]

I use and maintain the SA80,

Its a nice compact design, and the new A2 model works, very well.
in the past week on the range providing armourer cover I have seen only 1 problem that involved more than a field strip to rectify.

Mag changes are quick, when practiced (like any weapon)
accuracy is good, and the new carbine version is a giggle (under 300m anyway)
The long barrelled version (LSW) was brought in as a machine gun, that didnt work so its now used for longer range aimed shots.

Yes its an odd weapon, we are the only country to use it,
but we use it well!

 

[9mmepiphany]

between northern ireland and the sand box, i'm thinking the SA-80 has seen the most actual combat

 

[PercyShelley]

Yes its an odd weapon, we are the only country to use it,
but we use it well!

I was under the impression that Jamaica and Zimbabwe both used it at some point as well, actually. I could be wrong.

 

[Wes Janson]

What do you mean by more chamberings? More rifles in that caliber. 5.7 is a proprietary rd owned by FN and can't be chambered in another platform without FN's approval.

Err, wot? Where the heck did you come up with that? There's no such thing as a "proprietary round" being "owned" by a company such that no one else can make it.

 

[taliv]

There's no such thing as a "proprietary round" being "owned" by a company such that no one else can make it.

tell that to the wankers that own the "Whisper" line

 

[Owen]

I'm betting ther FAMAS has seen a heap of action as well, due to the french running around in Africa.

I got an earful about it a few weeks ago from a Former Legionnaire. Among other things, rifle grenades are extremely unpleasant to shoot.

 

[Zak Smith]

Most auto-loading rifles have the magazine directly under the action for feed path reliability. In a bull-pup, this puts it between the butt of the stock and the grip. By definition, the bull-pup has its action in the same location.

There are a number of operations required to operate a fighting and/or practical carbine. Many of these involve manipulation or observation of or inside the action and mag-well. The location of these parts on the bull-pup is less efficient for how the carbine is shot and held.

* magazine changes

* observation of action during malfunction

* clear malfunction, especially, to clear a double-feed (which typically requires reaching into the mag well)

Giving a firing grip on the carbine: the less you need to move the carbine to execute any operation the better; the less you need to move the carbine to observe what needs to be observed, the better; the more mechanicaly leverage you have on the gun to operate various controls, the better.