Antis don't realize how much progress they've made

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ThrottleJockey

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You know, these Anti gun people really don't know what they're doing.I was talking to one a while back(couple weeks), and this guy actually thinks things are still like they were in the '40s and '50s. This guy is convinced that he can just go down to ANY pawn shop or gun store and get the proverbial "saturday night special" for $5 and they'll even throw in a box of shells. Don't get me wrong, this guy is actually a very intelligent, successful man of about 80. He is just an IDIOT when it comes to guns and laws. I mean he is CONVINCED, no amount of discussion will persuade him otherwise. He believes that anyone, ANYONE can just march into a store and get the select fire AK they are using in Africa, because "you can't change them". This is an anti that is outspoken in his community, and contributes money to his cause. I just wonder how many realize that they have actually accomplished their goal, and how many are still fighting because they don't realize that they have already gotten what they asked for? I mean, the vast majority aren't so bad that they want all guns removed from the planet, that's just the extremists.:cuss:
 
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Your addition of the fact that he is 80 yrs old says a lot.


I would have been more interested if you had said he was 30-40.


At 80, he might think it is the 1940's.



Not to be mean, just make a point.

.
 
No, he is really with it on all the other issues, very active and healthy, mental and physical. This guys knees are the only thing that bother him and they've been replaced twice!
 
You should invite him to your favorite gun store and tell him to pick out a selective fire weapon, or a $5 saturday night special. In other words, show him that he's wrong, don't just tell him.
 
That wouldn't work so well, the guys at the gun store sort of know me, and this old anti is my ex-father-in-law. Since he and his wife(some 25-30 years younger than he) are practically raising my son, I don't want them to know just how much I am into guns.
 
"Perhaps he believes this because of what he reads in the papers and sees on TV ."

Yes, my point exactly. The anti agenda is so irrational, they live in such a fairytale world, that they don't even realize the measures they asked for and are still asking for, already exist!

Danged unicorn jockeys in Cali.....
 
I mean, the vast majority aren't so bad that they want all guns removed from the planet, that's just the extremists.

Um, dude.

The extremists are the ones driving the bus for the anti-gunners. Where do you think he got all those freaky ideas? The extremists tell lies to the less extreme, hoping to make them more extreme. Especially if he donates to them, then they stroke and flatter him like there's no tommorrow to get more donation.

Mostly it works, as you can see, and my guess is he sucks the lies in uncritically because he wants to believe in them. As you point out, the smallest effort on his part to check the facts would crash the whole house of cards. But don't forget that there's nobody as blind as the guy who refuses to see. You might take him to your gun dealer, who could explain gun laws to him for hours, only to see him walk out of there and say, "That dealer is lying through his teeth!" Whose word is he gonna trust, his liberal buddies or an "evil" gun dealer?

But the bigger problem is, gun control doesn't work, at least not for reducing crime. So "getting what they asked for" or "accomplishing their goals" are kinda meaningless phrases, because no advance is going to be enough for them. Constantly "succeeding", constantly "failing", their goals shift in the wind as they "convert" one gullible sheep after another.

Basic fact, my friend. This guy has chosen his side, and it's the wrong one. He has not only swallowed their lies, it sounds like he has handed his very thinking process over to the anti-gun liars. What can you come up with that will put a scratch on a brainwashing job like that?

Some gunnies will say, Total waste of breath to even talk to people like that. Others say, Keep trying, you might convert him. Personally, my answer is Sometimes. Not with the great hope of converting him - if I wanted to do that I'd take him to the range. More with the observation that debate can be a useful tool to maintain and improve your own thinking processes, and practices some mental discipline as well. Just as we practice shooting to keep our skills tuned, I think we should look for opportunities to keep our thinking and speaking skills tuned up as well.

HTH, take what you need and leave the rest...

Parker
 
No, this particular person is just an example of a lot of those out there. None of this is meant to encompass all antis. As I even stated there are different "levels" of anti, extremists being one, middle of the road, etc...The vast majority I have encountered are more the middle of the road type. They tend to believe we need permits, background checks, waiting periods, etc., etc....The problem being that we have those things and they follow the extremists not even realizing they already have what they think we should have. The point being, HE WHO YELLS THE LOUDEST GETS HEARD THE MOST And by nature and definition, an extremist is going to yell pretty darn loud.
 
I assume he knows you own (A) gun? That you do some target shooting or hunting?
So when you happen to be riding with (if possible just him) or when HE brings it up. Bet him $20 that he can't buy a gun (or even get dealer) to sell him a gun that cheap/easy/without background check. You make a few bucks off him. He learns something new. Everyone wins.
 
Reminds me of the old guy I used to share an office with until recently.

I'm liberal. He's an unthinking liberal. He just believes what he's "supposed" to believe.

He recently opined that relaxing the embargo would liberalize Cuba. I didn't deny that it would, I just asked "how?" He just kept saying that it would. He neither could nor would explain HOW. Some people, especially older people don't feel any need for rational explanation of their assertions. A causal mechanism would have introduced the possibility that something he WANTED to happen might not actually happen. His views on gun control are similarly devoid of cause and effect mechanisms.
 
Here is a piece of an e-mail my wife got from my ex-wife today. I think it shows a bit about the mentality of many people out there today, and just how clueless they are.

"What is with all this gun control stuff that everyone is talking about?? Oh well, who cares. It ain't gonna happen anyway! LOL I don't know, I just think that guns are dangerous if the wrong hands end up with them. That is just my view on them, they are dumb to have if they are just to make a person "look cool" which I am sure some people out there do."

She is sort of a reformed anti, and just the sort of person she says is dangerous. What I want to know, is how tiny her little bubble must be to not know what is going on. And as far as the people that have guns just to "look cool" are concerned, I only know one, HER.
 
You know, these Anti gun people really don't know what they're doing.
Click to expand...

It's just ignorance. I knew a very pro-gun person (owned machine guns, sbrs, etc.) who seriously thought that women cannot be good engineers, based on a single experience he had with a female engineer 25-30 years prior. Just because they were female.

Just this weekend, I was at a gun show and talked with a very nice gentleman (70 years old) who said that "computers were to blame for children's problems these days". Uh, that's similar to saying guns are a problem by themselves... It's not the tool, it's the people using them, or the parents not supervising the children.

Ignorance/biases come from all people, not just antis...
 
I have recently had similar observations, not just relating to antis but to average citizens too. A very good friend of mine recently commented while we were in a gun store, my errand not his, that it was ridiculous that people could just pick up and buy fully automatic weapons. I had to ask what he meant, then he pointed to a rack of AR's. I explained NFA regulations and background checks. He knew none of this. This is a college educated home owner of above average intelligence. His story has been that he has always wanted "reasonable regulation." He was amazed that any regulation at all existed, so much so that he went home and told his wife.

The other side is from my mother who is a 2nd supporter, but somehow hates guns. I grew up with them, no problems as long as she didn't have to touch them. She believes strongly in a citizens right to own them but refuses any involvement whatsoever. When I came in with my AR in 6.8 for a pig hunt in the delta, she had no problems at all. What made me curious was her reference to my machine gun. I asked her about her comment and she responded that she thought it must be one because of the way it looked. What amazed me was that, while she fully believed it to be an actual assault rifle, she had no problem with it at all.

So I see here that without education people will default to the standard stereotypes they are deluged with, but some people just mind a bit more than others.

To answer the OP's question though, I believe that a significant portion of those out there calling for "reasonable regulation" have no idea of the regulations already in place. This does not however diminish the fact that there are more than enough of those who know exactly what they are doing.
 
KaintGetwright, thank you. You have done a much better job of articulating my point than I did! In short, they just don't know when to quit as long as the extremists are leading the way. If the average joe schmo citizen only knew, they would likely tell the extremists to pound sand....
 
Of course some will never be reached but I believe there are enough people who still can be to make a difference. This is exactly the reason we can never stop being there to give a patient explanation or invite our slightly anti buddy out to the range.

It is so easy to get jaded and throw up you hands and say antis will never get it, but not everybody follows the cult, some are just badly misinformed by upbringing and education, oh and lets not forget the media.

We can't forget though that there are quite a few that follow the cult, and there is a lot of money and power left to go around by pursuing gun control politics. But these little encounters give me hope. Good post OP.
 
Actually, considering inflation, his comment isn't too out of line. $5 in 1940 is like $75 today. Nagant revolvers, and all sorts of used saturday night specials (Rohms, RG's, CDMs, etc...), and all sorts of old bulldog and H&R, Iver Johnson, etc... top breaks (in .32 and .38) , and all sorts of other cheap pistols do sell for that price range. NIB Hi Points are not too much more.
He probably is not in line with the fact that prices went up, maybe his statement has some facial innaccuracies, but more or less, he is right- there is cheap guns out there. Whether or not thats a bad thing- that's something we might disagree on;)
 
KaintGetwright posted:
there is a lot of money and power left to go around by pursuing gun control politics
Click to expand...

And a lot of that money gets funneled to the powerful left wing media outlets such as NBC. Here's an true life example of how that money and power is turned into political force.

My Father In-Law is a retired police officer and also a former country commissioner. He is very nice guy and is well known in the town where I grew up and where he still lives. Back when the AWB94 was being debated, he remarked to me, (paraphrasing and going by memory), that he has no trouble with people owning firearms, but that nobody has any business owning a machine gun.

I pounced on this teachable moment. I explained to him that the AWB had nothing to do with machine guns, that it was about semiautomatic firearms only. He then said, "I don't have a problem with those". So I asked him why he thought the AWB was about machine guns? He said he saw a news report where they were talking about the AWB and he said they showed police officers demonstrating machine guns. NBC was the culprit. They had done that at least once if not more often.

Then I said that since he was an ex cop, didn't he realize that machine guns were already strictly regulated. He said yes. I asked why he thought the new AWB was necessary then. He said he thought that someone was trying to legalize machine guns and that the AWB was a bill preventing that. I asked why he thought this way and he said, "I dunno. I just thought that's what this was all about."

So we have misinformation and propaganda being deliberately spread by the left and their minions in the MSM, combined with a general ignorance (not stupidity) of firearms and firearms laws in the general public. That's a recipe for cooking up more gun control and the left knows it. They've even admitted it. Someone on their side explained that the confusion in the general public over semiautomatic vs. machine guns would allow them to ban a whole new class of weapons. It almost worked for 10 years. They would like to put the ban back in place. Maybe the public has a little more information due to our side not taking things for granted anymore. I hope this is a contributing factor, anyway.
 
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