Any 7.62x54R bolt gun other than M-N?

[Gabe]

The surplus ammo is so cheap it would be cool to have more bolt guns to shoot it with. In particular are there newly made guns chambered in this cartridge?

 

[thefitzvh]

No, no other bolt guns...















... after all, it doesn't get any better than a Mosin

 

[JohnKSa]

The Finnish M-Ns are generally considered to be a cut above.

The only other guns I am aware of chambered in the 7.62x54R are the Tokarev Semi Auto Rifle and the Dragunov.

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

It's not a bolt gun, but Winchester chambered the old classic 1895 in .30 Russian (nowadays commonly known as 7.62x54R) years ago. They occasionally show up at larger gunshows.

Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[Spy Who Came in from the Cold]

OJSC "IZHMASH" (the original Kalashnikov factory) is producing some rifles in this calibre. "Record-CISM" is a standard sport rifle for target shooting at a 300-m range in men's exercises in prone, standing and kneeling positions within the program of International Shooting Union (CISM). The Record hunting rifle is intended for professional hunting of big-and medium-size game based on same action. Note that the SV-98 sniper rifle is also a prodigy of this family.


http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml
http://www.world.guns.ru/sniper/sn28-e.htm

 

[DMK]

Aparently, it's possible to convert Enfields from .303 to 7.62x54R. I hate to admit it, but I've seriously considered doing this to one of my Pakistani No. 4s since .303Brit is so hard to get and I've got like 6K of '54R stashed here and there.

http://www.jpfo.org/smle.htm

 

[SMLE]

Hmmmmm. Those guys are ust up the road a little ways, maybe I'll start looking for an un-remarkable #4 to have converted.

Oh BTW; The #4 is NOT an SMLE! That appellation belongs exclusivly to the #1 Rifle.

 

[Jim K]

Just my usual irreverent thinking, but whoinhell would want to chamber a new rifle for an obsolete, oddly shaped, poorly feeding, rimmed cartridge which now is available cheap but will be in the collector category in the not too distant future?

Jim

 

[Gabe]

Collector's catagory? 7.62x54R is the standard GPMG cartridge of half the world's armies, including some of the really big ones. It'll probably be around after 308 is long gone.

 

[Spy Who Came in from the Cold]

I’m not a handloading expert but I’ve been told that 7,62x54R is slightly more accurate than .308. The shape of this “obsolete†case enables the gunpowder to combust in a bit more optimal conditions. It is true that rimmed case can cause feeding problems and that it does not work in automatic weapons as well as modern ammo, but it’s still very popular calibre in our part of the world. It will be around longer than our lifetime.

Talking about obsolete calibres and weapons: Marlin lever action rifles in Calibre .45-70 Government are quite popular rifles among elk hunters up here. Old does not equal useless.

 

[SMLE]

Spy

Old does not equal useless.

I'm assuming from your location that you are in Finnland. If there is anybody who knows the merits of the 7.62x54R it's the Finns.

I love this quote from the 1939 "Winter War", attributed to a Finn soldier watching the Red Army's first attempt to enter Finnland.

"So many Russians, where will we bury them all?"

 

[GigaBuist]

Hmm... does anybody import the Izhmash stuff besides the Saiga rifles and shotguns? I don't know why, but I think I'd like to try some out. I guess I just like owning rifles that you don't find in every single house around here.

 

[Cosmoline]

Yes, in Finland anyway. There are many rifles chamberd for 7.62x54R over there that use non-Mosin actions. Most are used for hunting or for target shooting. Like Spy I've seen several sources which claim the 54R is superior for accuracy than the .308, and there are many trophies to prove this. It's one of the grand old cartridges and isn't going to die off anymore than the .30'06 or the .30-30.

 

[Jim K]

The 7.62 Russian (7.62x54R) almost did die off in the U.S. Remington was the only U.S. maker and was on the verge of discontinuing it when the Iron Curtain came down and ex-Soviet rifles flooded the U.S. market.

It will take a while, but the rifles and MGs using it will eventually be replaced and most of the ammo will probably be scrapped rather than sold on the civilian market. There will be a market in Europe, especially in Finland, for a while, but I still see the cartridge again becoming obsolete in the U.S. (Of course if Kerry is elected, not to worry; all guns and ammunition will be seized and destroyed except for double barrel shotguns to hunt geese with.)

Jim

 

[Oleg Volk]

Is Tigr available in the US?

 

[DMK]

There will be a market in Europe, especially in Finland, for a while, but I still see the cartridge again becoming obsolete in the U.S.

Of course, it's cheap enough right now to easily stock up enough to last almost a lifetime of shooting from a bolt gun. Certainly enough to wear the barrels out.

 

[Gabe]

The Russians and Chinese are NOT getting rid of their GPMGs and coax machine guns. They've found ways to reliably run rimmed cartridges long ago and have no need to "upgrade". This means surplus 7.62x54R is here to stay.

 

[Spy Who Came in from the Cold]

Just came back from shooting range. This was my favourite type of a day: Plenty of ammo and all kind of interesting weapons free of charge. And the cherry on the top of icing: I didn’t need to clean them up myself!

I’m a volunteer weapon instructor in a reservist-training organisation that could be in some way compared with National Guard. Anyway, today there was infantry weapon training day where I was asked to participate as an assistant instructor. I was supervising the shooting, assisting and instructing our guests, kept records and all duties that you can imagine can include in event like that.

The bonus was that when our guests left, it was our duty to get rid of all ammo that was left. And believe me, it was plenty.

Anyway, I grabbed my favourite weapon, the TAK-85 sniper rifle (the ultimate Mosin-Nagant) and a bagful of ammo boxes and headed to 300m rifle range with couple of mates with similar itch. You get the point? Now my right shoulder is a bit blueish...

The 7,62x54R will live long in this country as we have a bit sentimental relation with this calibre and Mosin-Nagant rifles. The army is selling M-39 rifles for reservists for 200€ each and these are not any battle-beaten worn-out warhorses but mint condition relics from the history. They are very popular and cherished up here. Part of national heritage.

This calibre will not fade away in here for a very long time.

 

[DMK]

The army is selling M-39 rifles for reservists for 200€ each and these are not any battle-beaten worn-out warhorses but mint condition relics from the history. They are very popular and cherished up here.

They are popular and cherished here as well.

1942 Sk.Y Civil Guard (top) and 1942 Belgian Barrel (bottom)

 

[jobu07]

Ya know, I really think that the Finn's put some beautiful stocks on those 39's. Much more aestetically pleasing than the Russian equivilants.

 

[SMLE]

Seversal years ago, I was working in a gun store here in Albuquerque(Mike Noonan's if anyone remembers it) We were able to get M91 Nagants 3 for a $100.00 with 20 rounds of ammo. We sold them for $49.95 with the ammo. Did a land office business. One batch also came in with leather ammo pouches. The Pouches were WWI German made and stuffed with newsprint to keep their shape. I remember very carefully smoothing out one sheet to find the front page of the Helsinki news paper proclaiming President Kennedy's Arrival tro sign the Helsinki Acords.

All of them had the "SA" stamp on them. Some had SIG barrels, some had heavy barrels that were turned down at the muzzle to accept the standard socket bayonet. We got one that was dated 1899 and still had it's original barrel. The bore was minty and the old beast shot 1 MOA with Chinese mil-surp ammo.

At one time I had the folowing M-Ns, 1891, 1891 Dragoon, 91/30, Finn models 91, 27, 28, 28-30 and 39. I entered the 28-30 in the local State Fair as a "target" rifle with the bayonet fixed. Won a prize too.

 

[Cosmoline]

Anyway, I grabbed my favourite weapon, the TAK-85 sniper rifle (the ultimate Mosin-Nagant)

Oh man, I know some folks stateside who would LOVE to get their mits on one of those. Can you enlighten me on one point--without giving away any military secrets of course. Does the TAK-85 use a Mosin receiver or just a Mosin bolt? If it's the receiver, they can lay claim to being the oldest arms in continuous use by a military force.

I had an M-39 made in 1969 with a receiver dating back to 1894 France! Heck of a rifle.

 

[Spy Who Came in from the Cold]

There’s no much secret about this rifle. It has original Mosin-Nagant hexagonal shaped receiver from pre-Soviet era. The rifle is built around a strong aluminum action bedding block in which all other components – the receiver, barrel, stock and scope rail - are attached. One of the weak points of the M-N rifle is the open receiver that is by modern standards too flexible to hold heavy free floating barrel. The bolt, receiver and feeding box in TAK-85 are M-N parts but heavily modified. The bolt is chopped to make it lighter and faster and it does not have M-N:s pull-and-twist safety. The trigger mechanism is from old biathlon/competition rifle based on M-N. The heavy adjustable stock is naturally designed for shooting with scope and bipod.

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/Bowser.asp

 

[Cosmoline]

Thanks for the info! That's amazing stuff. It's the equivalent of the US military using a Krag rifle's receiver for a modern sniper. But of course the Mosin is superior to the Krag.

One of your old M-91's took a brace of ptarmigan this weekend in Willow, Alaska. FMJ ball knocks the fat birds down much better than a .22.