Any current handguns and carbines in .7.62x 25 Tokarev?

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whm1974

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I have been wondering if their any modern firearms chambered for the 7.62x25 Tokarev cartridge? A carbine in this round should make for for a light hunting cartridge for small to mid size game with the proper loadings. Such as the smaller deer species and such.

And I remembered that a lot of folks who shot pistols in this caliber when they imported large number of such handguns back during the late 80's to early 90's remarking how easy it was to control compared to .357 Mag and .45 ACP... With ammo being being cheaper to boot.

Any thoughts?
 
I have a CZ52 and really love how it handles the TOK round, just wish the sights were better. If I had my way I'd love to see the Ruger PCC chambered in 7.62x25 but that is about as likely as them making that in 45lc. Never thought about it for hunting, I don't know how it would perform. The ammo certainly isn't cheap now so it that would be an uphill battle getting anything new to come out.
 
There is some interest, but no "modern" guns. I see two problems:
!. The cheap ammo is gone. The remaining Iron Curtain Surplus is more expensive than fresh 9mm econoball.
2. There is no current gun that could be readily adapted to the round, its OAL is too long for even a .38 Super magazine.
 
somethingbenign said:
I have a CZ52 and really love how it handles the TOK round, just wish the sights were better. If I had my way I'd love to see the Ruger PCC chambered in 7.62x25 but that is about as likely as them making that in 45lc. Never thought about it for hunting, I don't know how it would perform. The ammo certainly isn't cheap now so it that would be an uphill battle getting anything new to come out.
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I've read that pistol can handle higher loads then standard 762x25 rounds.
 
Lol. Yeah, in this case “custom” may actually be applicable... unlike so many AR “custom” parts.
 
I have a Polish PPS-43 with 16" barrel, shroud to match addressing the otherwise anteater look, and functional folding stock. There have to be others out there.
 
somethingbenign said:
It is roller delay blowback so a much stronger lockup than needed. If only the firing pin was built as strong as everything else.
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I wonder why they bothered with using such a strong lockup, but used a much weaker firing pin. I remember a vendor selling the pistols offering a new steel firing pin that was the needed strength.
 
The same outfit that sells firing pins also has hardened rollers and extractors.
Apparently the CZ52 is a strong design but of indifferent materials and not durable.
 
whm1974 said:
Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
While it is fun to talk about, no gun manufacturer in their right mind is going to design any new gun around an old com-bloc SMG cartridge based on 7.63 Mauser. The market for that gun is even smaller than a 9mm revolver. There are better odds on a .45 Gap carbine or a P3AT/LCP clone in 9x18Mak - haha.

whm1974 said:
I've read that pistol can handle higher loads then standard 762x25 rounds.
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The problem with the "fact" of the CZ52's reported strength is that it is published in writing. Nobody denies that it is written - I have a reloading manual that says it. It's just that the "fact" isn't true. It's been copied without verification. Years ago, Clark did some testing on CZ52 barrels, linked below.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/7-62x25-whats-the-point.673525/page-5

TLDR: The CZ52 has a thin chamber wall on the bottom and inconsistent steel. The TT-33 is stronger.
 
cougar1717 said:
The problem with the "fact" of the CZ52's reported strength is that it is published in writing. Nobody denies that it is written - I have a reloading manual that says it. It's just that the "fact" isn't true. It's been copied without verification. Years ago, Clark did some testing on CZ52 barrels, linked below.

TLDR: The CZ52 has a thin chamber wall on the bottom and inconsistent steel. The TT-33 is stronger.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the Czechs have always been known for poor weapon designs, shoddy materials and crappy workmanship, particularly when judged against the ultra high standards of cold war era Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union. :barf:
 
To quote a usually reliable source (Me!) the 7.62x25's OAL is too great for the 1911 magazine well. It just wouldn't pay for a manufacturer to tool up for an odd round. Although I think the stretched gun would probably be a good home for 10mm, which is kind of cramped in standard actions.
 
Jim Watson said:
2. There is no current gun that could be readily adapted to the round, its OAL is too long for even a .38 Super magazine.
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There are a couple of guns that I think could be adapted to fire the 7.62 Tokarev, actually. I just don't have the money to throw at what a conversion would cost me, and I would have to find a talented gunsmith to do the work. Seeing as I don't have the time or the money right now, I haven't wasted a gunsmith's time asking these questions.. yet anyway.

The Ruger 57
The 5.7 round isn't TOO far off from the Tokarev in terms of dimensions. The existing magazines with altered feed lips and a new follower would probably work, the biggest question is whether or not Ruger's delayed blowback action could handle the Tokarev round instead of the 5.7. The question after that is whether or not there is enough room in the action to allow a cartridge with different dimensions to function. I haven't handled one in person so I don't really have an idea yet.

The IWI Deagle
I mean, this gun definitely has the room.. and then some. I don't doubt that the action would be strong enough at least! The magazines are so oversized for the Tokarev round that I'm sure a semistaggered higher capacity arrangement would be possible. You would need a new follower, altered feed lips, new feed ramp, a new barrel, reduced strength recoil springs, and maybe changing the size of the DI tube and moving it closer to the beginning of the barrel (similar to the Sig Rattler) would allow it to work?

The Coonan .357 Magnum 1911
This gun would probably require the least number of modifications to shoot the 7.62 Tokarev round.. but it's a single stack and to me, not a significant enough improvement over the TT33/M57 for me to be interested.

-------Cartridge--------------OAL-------------Widest Dimension of cartridge
-----7.62 Tokarev-----------1.386"-------------------------0.392"--------
---------FN 5.7----------------1.594"------------------------0.313"--------
----.-357 Magnum ----------1.59"--------------------------0.440"-------
--------.50 AE-----------------1.610"-------------------------0.547"-------​


Now.. an interesting idea. Our Canadian neighbors reportedly had access to a Chinesium Clone of the Sig P226, the Norinco NP762. The magazines were limited to 10 rounds of 7.62x25 Tokarev, but I believe that was to comply with Canadian laws, not because more wouldn't fit.

Given that various eastern European gun manufacturers have shown their willingness to continue manufacturing 7.62 Tokarev pistols for the market (Zastava) perhaps they could be convinced to make a similar clone to the NP762.

Just my thoughts, I am not a gunsmith. Just a fan of the 7.62x25. I'd love a double stack, modern pistol chambered in the Tokarev round. Someday I hope to make that happen, one way or another :D...
 
The Coronagun is interesting.

I don't think the Ruger would handle it.
Coonan is dead.
I had just as soon have one of the wannabe burp guns as a Deagle.

Given that Tokarevs are still in production, maybe you could talk the Hungarians into resuming the Tokagypt in .30 instead of 9mm. The P38 grip and reasonably well positioned safety would let it serve as well as any single stack.

Now you have me thinking of it, a Brno FK would probably be adaptable to 7.62.
 
Looking at the price of 7.62x25 ammo today I can't see why anyone would want a firearm in that cartridge. It's much more expensive than most handgun rounds. More expensive than 223.
 
Jim Watson said:
I don't think the Ruger would handle it.
Click to expand...
Probably not without creating an entirely custom slide assembly using a browning lockup and just reusing the frame/magazines.

Jim Watson said:
I had just as soon have one of the wannabe burp guns as a Deagle.
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What is your dislike of the Deagle from? I've shot a couple, they're fine. Impractical, but fine. I imagine 7.62x25 Tok would have about as much recoil as a hamster fart being shot out of a gun like that. It'd be kind of funny actually.

Jim Watson said:
Now you have me thinking of it, a Brno FK would probably be adaptable to 7.62.
Click to expand...

It would fit, with a little room to spare. I leave the FK out of the running because I consider it to be more or less vaporware. I love everything about their idea, and I appreciate that they're trying to reach out to the market with their lower end polymer offering that has a 9mm caliber kit.. but I'm afraid it's not going to catch on. They haven't landed any LEO or military contracts and the civilian market isn't used to forking over that kind of cash. The price was north of 5k for the all steel version, and 1700+ for the polymer framed variant. It WOULD lend itself to being chambered in that round though. If I ever see them for sale in the US I think that'd be a neat idea.
 
Texas10mm said:
Looking at the price of 7.62x25 ammo today I can't see why anyone would want a firearm in that cartridge. It's much more expensive than most handgun rounds. More expensive than 223.
Click to expand...

It's a fun round to shoot. I put it in the same category as my .45's - yeah it's a little pricier to shoot than some cheaper alternatives, but it's fun enough in it's own right that it's worth it to me.
 
JG Sales made a 7.62x25 conversion for 1911's a few years back. Apparently, you can fit something like 3 or 4 rounds of 7.62x25 into a 1911 magazine.

For some reason, it never took off.
 
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