Any other liberals?

Status
Not open for further replies.
RKBA is pretty much the most important political topic to me.

Could frankly care less about a whole heck of a lot others (i guess that makes me an apathetic liberterian on most subjects :p ).
 
Quote:
"However, recent events have lead me to realize I can't expect the police to be everywhere all the time."

...understatement... I respect and appreciate the efforts of law enforcement - BUT, even our US SUPREME COURT has stated it is not their responsibility to protect us... its OUR responsibility

Hell in my county, particularly if you live in a rural area - response time is in excess of 2.5-3hours...

Bflobill_69
 
just watched the new John Adams biography (which I highly recommend)....

back at the turn of the last century, Jefferson and his crowd who favored a week Federal government and trusted the inherant goodness of man to provide for social harmony, were called ..... Republicans!

If I understand correctly, prior to FDR, the Democrats were largely Libertarian in their politics.

Funny how these terms change in their meaning and can be spun into meaning anything you want.

I prefer to be "unlabeled", but the minute I open my mouth on any issue, am promptly tagged with one.
 
I see two types of politicians.

Those who see me as a productive citizen, entitled to freedom to earn a living, defend myself and my family, and live an unfettered existence.

Then there are those who see me as a subject to be lorded over, my vote bought with promises of free healthcare, housing, and protection... just as long as I give them power.

Nothing is 'free', except charity by kind people. Politicians are not kind people.

I find myself more and more disgusted by the entirety of our elected.

Mark Twain had it right. "There is no distinctly criminal class, save congress."
 
I am kind of like someone else. Help those that help themselves. To hell with the ones that won't try and want someone to do it all for them.

Oh Yea, and guns for everybody who hasn't done something stupid to lose their right to own them. You know, criminals. :)

Is this still open? We must be playing nicely. :rolleyes:
 
I'll be honest... I am a bit of a libertarian right wing neanderthug,but the majority of honest liberals more often than not are at least able to intelligently discuss (if not necessarily agree) with my own beliefs. This stands in sharp contrast to the leftards who think my rights consist of meekly submitting to violence,or conforming with the adminstrative whimmsy of the Leviathan State.
The classical Liberal (vs. the current iteration ) has more in common with th elikes of me/us than you would think if all we do is adhere to labels.
 
The right to self defense, and hence the right to firearms ownership, is not a political topic.

Or, at least it wasn't until folks made it one.

You'd think that they'd learn... It's been 40 years since GCA 68, and it hasn't worked.
 
SC Kimber Fan,

Thank you and thanks to the others.

I 'held' back what I REALLY wanted to say and what I think because it is not allowed here.

PRO GUN ISSUES and ALL liberty issues boil down to gun rights and how much the 'State' as we know it will screw you, screw up your LIBERTIES which include gun rights PLUS how much CONTROL the 'police state' will gain even more CONTROL of your life.

Gun control = control. Period!

Your right to self defense with any TOOL, including a GUN and/or GUNS, is NOT a liberal or conservative or right or left or small l or big L Libertarian issue.

Blessings to all of you.

Catherine
 
Yes, I did. It took moving to Houston for me to realize that if I needed a cop, he would show up LONG after the point I needed protection. Something about the nightly news being a body count got me to thinking it might be just as well that I be able to take care of myself.

It is an amazing thing, the empowerment that comes from that ability. I no longer slink furtively to my car at night. I am certainly looking around to be alert to trouble, but the very fact that I *am* able to take care of myself despite my arthritis and ill health makes all the difference in the world. And oddly enough, makes me less desirable as a target. How you look to the criminal who is watching you can make all the difference between him thinking "no, that's more trouble than I want" and "heh heh heh, easy meat".

Congratulations on your decision. It is the right one, and while, God willing, you will never need to use it in self-defense, or in the defense of a loved one, it is a good thing to take that responsibility and be able to do so.

Springmom
 
Welcome to shooting, Mcuraddoc. Good to have you.

IMHO Liberal <---> Conservative (or whatever other terms you like) is a pretty blunt instrument for measuring political opinions. In the US, the electoral system is structured so that if you want to play serious (political) ball, you have to be in one of the two major leagues, but that says more about the system than about any one person.

I could probably be thrown out of any political party meeting if the right (wrong?) subject(s) came up, but historically I've been more liberal than not, and would probably be so labeled by most of the people here. Nevertheless, I am strongly pro-RKBA. Many people consider RKBA a "conservative" issue, but I agree with Our Respected Host Oleg that it is a human right and not some partisan policy preference. I would like to see many more people, of all political views, be so persuaded.

Again, welcome.

regards,

GR
 
I am pro gun rights but probably considered a liberal by many here since I am voting for Mr. O this year. I consider myself to be a moderate though. Oh....I am not worried about anyone taking my guns.........Not even Mr. O. From my cold dead hands.............:scrutiny:
 
I'm a social liberal and fiscal moderate who's been a registered Democrat for 15 years. I own several firearms and enjoy shooting. I don't CCW because I don't personally feel the need, but reading this forum over the last year has given me much insight into the thinking of those who do.

One of my first posts to this forum was a statement that "concealed carry is a bad idea because of the danger to bystanders". (You can imagine what kind of reception that got. :eek: ) I no longer feel that way. You all have convinced me that responsible people should have the right to defend themselves by whatever degree of force is necessary.

On the other hand, I don't personally see RKBA as an issue of major political importance, and I plan to vote for Obama. I don't think his election will result in any gun bans except possibly a new assault weapon ban, which wouldn't trouble me much. Given what's going on in Iraq and Wall Street, I think there are many more important problems facing the US right now than whether I'm allowed to own an AR-15.
 
"Given what's going on in Iraq and Wall Street, I think there are many more important problems facing the US right now than whether I'm allowed to own an AR-15."



Just a foot in the door...then you'll be wondering why you can't buy all sorts of guns...we need to protect what rights we have left...However, either way, I won't be concerned with whether or not I'm allowed to own an AR-15, either...
By the way, the "important problems" haven't even started yet...:scrutiny:
 
"I now vote Republican and regret every vote I ever cast for a Democrat. I believe a liberal gun-owner will either cease to be liberal or cease to be a gun-owner(because of the liberal politicians that they put into office).""





Well put...exactly what I was trying to say before....:scrutiny:
 
I thought of myself as a liberal as a teenager, but it turns out that I'm just extremely socially liberal and didn't really understand most economic issues. The more I learn about that end of things, the more I realize how interrelated social and economic issues are, and have come to see through the left's class warfare ideology and parked myself squarely in the individualist libertarian camp (which can be a rather disorganized camp, as you'd imagine). I'm not a single issue voter unless you count freedom as a single issue, and I can't support either major party candidate for President, but I do believe that the right to self defense is the foundation of all other rights.
 
This may have been asked already, but I am too tired to read all the replies. So, I will ask, your scenario occurred while you were on duty, right? I wouldn't think you would be allowed to carry while on the job. I am guessing it just opened your eyes to the possibility it could have happened while you were just out and about?
 
Hi...Thanks for all of your thoughts

Hi all-

I have read what you guys/gals have posted. Thank you for your thoughts. It seems there are other liberals (or at least lean that way) who have made the same choice I have. And, the person who posted the comment about the role of the local police and what The Supreme Court, good information. I didn't know that.

It also seem like other folks who treat victims of GSWs have choosen to arm themselves, too. It sounds like I'm not the first guy to make this decision.

Thank you all for your thoughts! I'm glad I happened across this community!

:D:D:D:D
 
Staunch Conservative here, fiscal, social, foreign policy, advocate for individual liberty, tell the govt to get the hell out of my life.:D

I think liberal gun owners are in a real conundrum, especially with Obama as the candidate. The very people liberals vote for, seek to destroy our Second Ammendment rights, but they try to decieve people with "reasonable regulations". Who gets to decide what's reasonable, ultra left wing Democrats?:uhoh::barf:

For folks here who don't believe Obama will go after our Second Ammendment rights, I invite you to go to www.gunbanobama.com.

I'm with other folks here as well, the 2nd Ammendment is of utmost importance to me, its one of the core issues that decide my vote.
 
"...I see the attitude of "don't tax me" while some poor individual dies of cancer they can't afford to get treated, through no fault of their own, .."

I agree, so far as what you say, "though no fault of their own". Those we can help and, if evidence is correct, we do help, a lot, and gladly so.

Unfortuantely, by far the most of those who live in deep poverty do so as a matter of choice. Since I have limited means to care for my own family, demanding that I should stand in line to pour my means down a poverty rat hole and deprive my family of my means is silly. Seeking a benevolent govenment to tax me so they can give it to those who refuse to do what they could do to take care of themselves is not selfishness, it's realistic.

Consider that the vast majority of those in poverty are poorly educated in spite of a free public education being offered to all, in fact demanded to all. But the "professional poor" chose, of themselves, to live in that life style. They disdain education and have no work ethic, without which their lives will not change.

Don't tell me that some school systems are not as good as others. However true that may be, any education is better than no education and personal effort to learn overrides many obsticles. I didn't attend fancy schools either. We had no AC, no ETV, no computers at all. We had schools with bare wood floors, torn books, limited liberarys and few recreational activities. But we invented computers, took man to the moon and back and defeated communism's most massive state without firing a shot.

It was because WE WORKED! We never sat on our fat fannies and whined about how hard life is with only free housing, food, etc. to help us get by while surrounded by cable TV, CD and DVD players, Boomboxes, autos, cigerettes and wine. And worse. They destroy the free housing given them for kicks, I've seen it. So, my sympathies don't run too deep for those who refuse to help themselves.

Do I have sympathy for the little kids? Sure. But, given their parents and the determined bad community environment, what can I, or the gov., or anyone else do about changing it? Nothing at all! We HAVE tried and the percentage of those living in poverty is virtually unchanged after some fourty years of trying.

They are hopeless "victims" of themselves and will remain so until THEY change. That won't happen until they and THEIR "leaders" quite demogoging others and avoiding the issues. They will have to get off their duffs and get their kids into school and have them go to work if they ever want things like the rest of the nation, those who do work.

They have to learn to go to work, even if they "don't feel like it." Even if their education doesn't qualify them to run the place. Stay there, where ever it is, all day, every day, even if they feel the boss "disses" them". And never quit a job until they have another in hand.

Honest work is not beneath anyone. Work builds character and self image based on accomplishment, not psyco-babble froth. Work isn't for recreation or ego stroking, it's the way for the poor to earn a living and care for themselves and their own families. If they do that, they too will soon resent being robbed to care for the lazy who won't do a thing for themselves.

And even touchy-feely liberals should understand that.
 
This life is filled with many simple truths that never change and never will. One is that real education usually stems fears. When I say "real" education I mean the kind that you can actually take with you and use in day to day life. Not the kind of education that so many university professors advocate and preach today. Though someone may tell you that guns are dangerous or may show you some statistic that is skewed to make you think the way that they think, the only true education that exists out there is the one that you have personally proven. Are guns dangerous? Well, you are now an owner of a gun and have complete control over it. Rather than think about what horrible stories you have been told, go and make some stories of your own. I personally hope all your stories will be good ones and that you can let go of what you have been told or taught to believe by the media, left, or what-have-you. Learn about them. Take them apart. See how they work. And educate yourself as much as you can about everything there is to know about what you are doing. It is usually the uneducated people that not only don't know how to do things, but are also willing to let others who say they know to do it for them. That is when you see your rights begin to be taken away in the form of regulations, taxes, and social welfares.

Now prepare yourself for some more preaching.

Now, with that I personally cannot find much in common with the founder's writings on liberty and the "liberal" people in our country. That being said, there is not much in common with conservatives either. One cannot dispute that this country has changed since its conception, but liberty will always be my biggest motivation in who to vote for. In this case I think it will be for Sara Palin and McWhatshisname. Simply because the other side has been outspoken about taking my rights (guns), money (taxes), and in so doing my freedom. Nothing could be farther from the founder's conception of this new nation. Part of your reason to buy a gun was so that you could personally protect your three main rights: life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. You admit that you recognize that government cannot always guarantee those things. You were forced to personally guarantee those rights and freedoms. Now the question I ask you is does much of what neo-liberalism stand for allow you to personally guarantee those rights or does it try to force them upon you? Educate yourself on how successful "liberal" programs are. I think you will find that they are about as idealistic as having a cop next to you when someone trys to mug you. The government cannot help everyone everytime. Ultimately you have got to help yourself to get anywhere in this world.
 
Any other liberals?

11 posts, and you signed up yesterday. Welcome stranger.

Any questions, feel free to ask (or use the search function. Lots of questions get asked over, and over, and over, and over.....). Oh, you're the guy with the Jennings 9.

Political threads are generally encouraged to be taken up at THR's sister site. So, before this get's closed, I'll get in a comment or two that I hope you will find civil.

Given experiences I had during my formative years, I figure I could have either turned into a flaming statist Gore-voter type, like my late Mom, or something completely different. I went "completely different". My attitude about guns is an integral part of that.

Current political self-identification is "pessimistic Calvinist with libertarian sympathies". Ultimately optimistic, but that's eschatological. "This age" pessimistic, we humans being what we are. Details of how that works out my appear conservative to you, but they really aren't.

I have long been an advocate of a heavily regulated gun industry.

Ummm...that's what we have.

Are there anyother folks out there who have wrestled with the decision to arm themselves?

Wrestle with it? Not at all. It is my right.
 
When I first entered higher education and went to a liberal arts college, I was arguably an extremely right-wing conservative, somewhere in the 1-2% minority of the school (a place where people referred to one particular guy as "THE Republican").

When I left and transferred over to a community college, I suddenly became the wild left-wing liberal in the classroom, without having ever actually changed any of my views in the slightest.

In the end, I'm just a cynical pseudo-secular humanist libertarian who believes in that dangerous and crazy notion of freedom: that people should be allowed to do what they wish so long as they refrain from interfering with the right of others to do the same. The cynical part comes in with the realization that society is fundamentally a product of human nature, and thus many others do not share the same perspective as me. Thus we have the 1911.
 
Winnie Churchill said something to the effect that a man of twenty who is not a liberal has no heart and a man of thirty who is still a liberal has no brain. Of course in contemporary politics Democrats and republicans are just opposite sides of the same coin, and the coin, in all probability, was borrowed from China.
 
This should not be political at all:
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) asserts that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
signed - Thomas Jefferson
I live by this statement, and have never questioned the Right to bear arms, only the restrictions placed by government. Too many of the general population have been "trained" to fear and/or hate guns, which is totally irrational - they are tools only - how they are used is up to the "bearer".
sailortoo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top