Why are we always on the defensive?

[JSH1]

Just stop watching the news - even the locals are bought and paid for as one youtube video demonstrates - 16 news anchors from various stations all repeating the same talking points about the Florida shooting using the same phrases. They're simply parroting the party line. If broadcast news is the only source of information in your life, it won't give you a fair and balanced point of view. For those who won't look around on the net to find a different perspective it's a matter of not wanting to get one.

That is a reflection of the current state of the local news market. A steady push to squeeze more money out of a dwindling number of staff.

I learned some interesting things when I became friends with someone that worked in the local news business as a producer and on-air personality. What I learned is that the off camera parts of your "local" news stations have seen drastic cuts in staff. Very little of your "local" news is produced locally. Instead the scripts are written and then distributed to all the stations owned by the company. The only part of the news that is local is the little segments on who got shot, what burned down, what did the local sports team do, etc. Even a lot of that is shared between different networks in a metro area.

It isn't just the off camera parts that are shared, companies are starting to share on-air staff as well. It is not uncommon for one set of anchors to be simulcast across different networks or one team to do multiple broadcasts in different timezones.



An interesting article on the topic here: http://www.journalism.org/2014/03/26/shared-operations-and-news-production/

 

[Warp]

Defensive? Perspective.

 

[JohnKSa]

We don't necessarily have to stay on the defensive, but we will always have to keep fighting.

It is human nature to want to do SOMETHING when there's a tragedy. When an evil or sick person uses a gun to wreak havoc, there will always be those who feel that SOMETHING must be done.

It's fortunate that people don't approach speed limits the way they do gun laws. Otherwise we'd all be driving 20mph because the speed limit would have been dropped a few mph every time there was a fatal crash.

Anyway, when it comes to gun control, we have two choices. We can keep fighting (and have a chance of maintaining or perhaps gaining) or we can stop fighting and lose. Pretty simple.

 

[zxcvbob]

Well the left/anti's understand this. They are patient, waiting for each crisis to exploit. They learned long time ago, they can't get them all at once, so they nibble and nibble away.

They're not just waiting for each crisis, they are encouraging the next crisis. They make the shooter into a rock star; plaster his picture all over the TV and the Internet. All the other crazies see it and think, "I can do that. They'll remember me forever!"

I'm cynical enough to think it's intentional.

 

[rcmodel]

Why?
Because all young adults in this country have been brainwashed in public schools for at least 20 years now, that 'Guns are Bad! MmmKayy!'

My own 10 & 12 year old granddaughters look in my gun room and ask me why I have all those bad guns??

Kids today have never been exposed to the joys of hunting, target shooting, or plinking at tin cans on a river bank.
And they never will be, as there become fewer and fewer places to shoot and hunt.

It will only get worse as they grow up, and become leaders of the future.
They have been brainwashed anti-gun in public and private schools since they were in kindergarten!!

rc

 

[JSH1]

Why?
Because all young adults in this country have been brainwashed in public schools for at least 20 years now, that 'Guns are Bad!

Almost exactly 20 years ago I took my hunter's safety class at my public Middle School. That is a very broad brush you are using.

 

[Ignition Override]

Warp:
That's an excellent time-lapse chart.

As for the OP's questions, when my wife (very tolerant of guns, but not interested) watched comments on Fox News about the Orlando Islamic terrorist's Sig-Sauer sport utility rifle, she turned to me and puzzled, said "If a gun can kill 40 people in a minute, who really needs so much ammo?"

My only Dummkopf response was to bring down two pairs of Saiga 10-rd. .223 Izhmash magazines, with the two mags in each pair held together in an "L" shape, as Israeli Reserve soldiers sometimes do with strong tape when off duty.

I told her that a trained person might use two pairs of magazines almost as quickly as a single 40-rounder, the terrorist reportedly paused with a misfeed (etc) jam, and nobody knew it, or were too terrified to neutralize the threat anyway.

 

[mnrivrat]

Almost exactly 20 years ago I took my hunter's safety class at my public Middle School.

Interesting ?

Was it part of the schools programs , or did they just lend out a room after hours .

 

[OldMac]

Warp. That is an awesome graphic and does tell a much different story than the media. VT sticks out as a constant green light and it is as crime free and safe as ever.

 

[jmorris]

Quote:
Almost exactly 20 years ago I took my hunter's safety class at my public Middle School.
Interesting ?

Was it part of the schools programs , or did they just lend out a room after hours .

Back when hunters education became a requirement for anyone born around '71-'72 and after in my State, as part of a wildlife management class (regular school day elective) you could get your certificate.


As for the "defensive" part it is because we are not (well most firearms owners) going after more rights. Some are trying to hang on to the ones they have and others don't care.

So it's like water wearing granite, just sit there in the path and it happens...

 

[kkayser]

Price we pay

Barak Obama said, "we must ask ourselves if this is the type of society we wish to live in." I have asked myself that question and, the answer is yes. Occasional mass murders are part of the price we pay to live in a free society. On a recent NPR broadcast they interviewed a professor who has studied mass murders. He pointed out that they are nothing new. The number of mass murders per year has remained constant for 30 years. The reason it is such a big deal now, and was not a big deal in the past is communication. National "on the spot" coverage of any event that the media thinks will draw viewers. As pointed out above, this inspires potential mass murderers. The ultra conservative Fox News is the worst offender. Conservatism takes a back seat to money.

 

[mnrivrat]

Conservatism takes a back seat to money.

Everything takes a back seat to money & power.

 

[Aragon]

Every time there is a mass shooting and/or terrorist attack, pro gun advocates are always defending the 2A. I would like to see Republicans put the Democrats on defense after events like this. Turn the playbook against them... Bring in victims and have them say that they wish there weren't gun free zones and that if guns were more readily available, that they could have had a way to defend themselves, etc. Just make arguments over how the current gun laws are too stringent and, had the laws been looser, people would have had a means to defend themselves. Put the liberals on the hot seat and force them to cede and back off. Make them be the bad guys.

Good question...

It's far easier to adopt a "circle the wagons/bunker mentality" than to really engage issues. Remaining engaged can be exhausting.

 

[BigBore44]

One day, people are going to realize (actually they won't) that the news isn't really the news. It's a chopped, slanted, opinionated snippet of half truths designed to mold, shape, and sway public opinion. We are only shown what they want us to see in mainstream media. They play on emotion. In a time of crisis, emotion trumps facts. That's why Academy took down AR's in their stores.

But there is a caveat to this. The ones who are anti-gun, typically stay that way. But these events can also bring people to our side. 3-3.5 hours for the police to make entry has shown people that the police can't always be there to save them. And if they want to be saved, they have to save themselves. And they seek out ways to do so. And with proper training and education, we gain people on our side.

 

[1911 guy]

We are on the defensive because people have forgotten how to look at issues by principle. Instead, we look at things and make decisions according to present circumstance, past and future be hanged.

So, we are always responding to criticism and threat in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy. Because we as a society, gun owners being part of that society, are too blasted stupid to press the fight when we have advantage. We instead wait until we're being kicked to utter a single word.

 

[kkayser]

Everything takes a back seat to money & power.

Everything is too broad a brush. Examples of not being about the money: Volunteering in Africa to fight Ebola, serving in the Peace Corps, teaching gun safety to the boy (and girl?) scouts.

 

[Warp]

Everything is too broad a brush. Examples of not being about the money: Volunteering in Africa to fight Ebola, serving in the Peace Corps, teaching gun safety to the boy (and girl?) scouts.

Looking at it on an individual level, yes. I volunteer instruct with firearms and it only costs me time and money, there is no material profit or anything close. But that isn't really in the political realm which is what I believe we were getting at

 

[cdk8]

When Obama had that town hall meeting, he constantly noted how the NRA declined to participate, and implied this showed apathy. I think quite a few people who are on the fence accepted his explanation. This hurt us.

However, the town hall meeting was not discussing 2A rights...rather, it was discussing what is (but NOT what is not) an acceptable level of infringement on individual rights. In other words, any and every outcome is a loss, so there is no logical reason for the NRA to participate in this type of event.

BUT...this event gives the NRA good reason to have their own town hall meeting, where they can invite the President and all of the other gun control proponents who criticized the NRA for not attending. This forum will discuss strengthening the 2A, concealed carry, and heavier punishments for illegally using a firearm. With the upcoming election, this type of town hall meeting will be great.

I would love to also see pro-gun organizations arrange town hall type meetings with the primary topic of engaging specific cohorts and discussing why concealed carry should be protected & expanded, and how concealed carry will prevent & stop acts of bigotry. I'm moving in the direction of an elevator pitch along the lines of, "while the government cannot stop individual acts of hatred, the 2A can not only stop an act of hatred, but prevent it outright from ever happening."

Active efforts can push the exercising of 2A rights to an entirely new level. Changing the 2A views of many of the voters for politicians that have extreme views on gun control will make it more difficult for those politicians to push such legislation through (as they would lose their job.) We are probably not going to get rid of anti-2A politicians...but a shift in voter ideology will still help stop the erosion...?

 

[Warp]

When Obama had that town hall meeting, he constantly noted how the NRA declined to participate, and implied this showed apathy. I think quite a few people who are on the fence accepted his explanation. This hurt us.

However, the town hall meeting was not discussing 2A rights...rather, it was discussing what is (but NOT what is not) an acceptable level of infringement on individual rights. In other words, any and every outcome is a loss, so there is no logical reason for the NRA to participate in this type of event.

BUT...this event gives the NRA good reason to have their own town hall meeting, where they can invite the President and all of the other gun control proponents who criticized the NRA for not attending. This forum will discuss strengthening the 2A, concealed carry, and heavier punishments for illegally using a firearm. With the upcoming election, this type of town hall meeting will be great.

I would love to also see pro-gun organizations arrange town hall type meetings with the primary topic of engaging specific cohorts and discussing why concealed carry should be protected & expanded, and how concealed carry will prevent & stop acts of bigotry. I'm moving in the direction of an elevator pitch along the lines of, "while the government cannot stop individual acts of hatred, the 2A can not only stop an act of hatred, but prevent it outright from ever happening."

Active efforts can push the exercising of 2A rights to an entirely new level. Changing the 2A views of many of the voters for politicians that have extreme views on gun control will make it more difficult for those politicians to push such legislation through (as they would lose their job.) We are probably not going to get rid of anti-2A politicians...but a shift in voter ideology will still help stop the erosion...?

If the NRA went to that town hall they would just be used as a pathetic excuse of a scapegoat/target. They would not have been able to ask their own questions, good questions, the questions that need answered. Why go just to be the punching bag of the event coordinators

 

[cdk8]

If the NRA went to that town hall they would just be used as a pathetic excuse of a scapegoat/target. They would not have been able to ask their own questions, good questions, the questions that need answered. Why go just to be the punching bag of the event coordinators

I agree and tried to word that in my post... Did I word it poorly?

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

That Samantha B tv person will be doing another anti NRA show tonight.
More "balanced" reporting I am sure...

 

[MagnunJoe]

Maps are cute, but maps don't tell u how many states have capped mags at 7,8 or 10 rounds. Maps don't tell u states that over tax guns and ammo. Maps don't tell u about states making u wait 5,7 or 10 days to purchase a gun. Maps don't tell u how many states (and there are many) that ban dozens or even hundreds of guns for whatever reason. Maps don't tell u how many states impose FOIA cards to purchase ammo. Maps don't tell you which states make it very, very, difficult to CC?
All these things mentioned above are are infringements and violations on our 2nd amendment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Warp]

Maps are cute, but maps don't tell u how many states have capped mags at 7,8 or 10 rounds.

My knowledge of gun laws tells me that. Guess what...it's not very many states, only happens in all Democrat (majority house, majority senate, governor) states...with the only recent changes being NY and CO.

Maps don't tell u states that over tax guns and ammo.

The federal government does that with the 11% FET. There is no substantial gun/ammo tax at the state level (unless like CA or somebody has one I am not aware of?). Please tell us what states have added taxes on guns/ammo

'Maps don't tell u about states making u wait 5,7 or 10 days to purchase a gun. Maps don't tell u how many states (and there are many) that ban dozens or even hundreds of guns for whatever reason. Maps don't tell u how many states impose FOIA cards to purchase ammo.

I don't need a map to highlight CA, HI, and a handful of northeast states (like NY, NJ, MA, MD) to know they are bad (even though it just so happens the map I posted DOES tell you all of those states because none of them are green or blue right now)

Maps don't tell you which states make it very, very, difficult to CC?

lolwhat?

Did you even LOOK at the map I posted??

That is exactly what that map shows! All of the green = no license required, all of the blue = shall issue. It is safe to assume that the yellow states make it very difficult (may issue) or impossible. Here it is in the current form only:

All these things mentioned above are are infringements and violations on our 2nd amendment.

Yes, they are, and?

 

[ATN082268]

<Why are we always on the defensive?>


Good question. I think a lot of it is because so many pro-gun people let the anti-gun people saddle them with the burden of proof to keep their rights/freedoms. The anti-gun people should be made to show their restrictions are Constitutional, necessary, effective with no better alternatives. Don't hold your breath

 

[22-rimfire]

2A supporters are on the defensive after things like the Orlando shooting because the shooter used the very guns that we all say are for self defense or sporting purposes. Plus our President is leading the charge with constant support from the media.