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Any reasons "Not" To get carry permit?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by chetrogers, Mar 18, 2004.

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  1. chetrogers

    chetrogers Member

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    After searching the threads on CCW IM just curious if there are any reasons that a person should not get one.Other then not being able to shoot somebody if you had too..Im thinking of getting mine and just want last opinions on the issue.Thanks for any info...Im ready for the responcibility and would use a gun to defend myself if i had too In a life or death situation.
     
  2. Gray Peterson

    Gray Peterson Member

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    It puts you on a government list, and that's about it.

    However, one thing about Oregon carry permits: You don't neccesarily have to own a firearm to have a carry permit. I didn't own a firearm for a year after I got my CHL. So it's not a foolproof list, and if they go door to door, just say that you sold it years ago, and just kept the CHL (just in case). Unless they make it retroactively illegal to sell (which is ex post facto), you won't get in trouble (unless of course they found the guns).

    Reasons to get an Oregon CHL:

    1) Completely exempts you from any open carry ordinances by Portland, Beaverton, St. Helens, and Salem, or any other city out there that has anti-open carry ordinances.

    2) Of course it allows you to carry a concealed handgun.

    3) Gets you the ability to carry in quite a few states, not as good as Florida, but at least you can get a Florida as a non-residents.

    4) Home state permit gets you the ability to carry in some states that require resident permits only, like Michigan and South Carolina.
     
  3. fjolnirsson

    fjolnirsson Member

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    Oregon has open carry?
    The wife and I are planning a move there. It's looking better and better.
     
  4. joab

    joab Member

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    In the midst of Democratic controlled goverment and during the reign of one of the most anti-gun presidents that this country has ever known CCW swept the nation. I have to ask myself why. While I'm not a total conspiracy freak I wonder if this is not some grand scheme to get gun owners to register themselves voluntarily since goverment registration is , I believe, illegal.
    While it is true that some states issue weapons permits common sense would dictate that most people are getting their's to carry guns. In Fla switchblades are legal so I have that excuse to fall back on unless they actually do a search of my house.
    I realize that this farfetched but 50 or 60years ago how many people in the south would have thought that they would need a permit to have a gun on your person or that your kid could get expelled from school for making a toy gun out of a piece of chicken, or wearing a military based logo on his shirt.
    Like one man said "I love my country, but I fear my goverment" I think that was just before they executed his son and wife in their front yard.
     
  5. chetrogers

    chetrogers Member

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    Open carry in Oregon?????????????????????????
     
  6. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    The benefits both personally and "to the cause" FAR outweigh the negatives.

    Personal, well, you don't get hassled by cops as much. 'Nuff said.

    In the broader sense, the state knows how many people have such permits. Which gives three benefits:

    1) The state knows how many "hard core gunnies" would get screwed if they reversed course.

    2) Better yet, "stats guys" like John Lott, David Kopel and the like get to come along and sort out how many people are committed to self defense, during what time periods, and what effect that had on crime rates.

    3) The general public gets to see that mass carry does NOT cause problems. This tends to get reported in the media - see also http://www.equalccw.com/ccweffects.html for a collection of same. So when some grabber politician runs for office and says "guns are eeeeevil", the population of the shall-issue states gets to go "what the hell is he talking about?"

    Make no mistake: long term, I'd rather see Vermont/Alaska type carry than shall-issue. HOWEVER, I think the current period of predominantly shall-issue rules will be long-term beneficial in establishing widespread self defense as a net benefit.

    And of all the state "experiments" to date, I predict the one that will be the most long-term valuable will be Michigan.

    Do y'all understand how violent Detroit is? A couple years back, somebody calculated that if the US were to simply make a gift of Wayne County (where Detroit is) to Canada, the relative per-capita murder rates of Canada and the US would *equalize* :eek:. Sigh. So they've finally gone shall-issue - Detroit is now the ONLY major inner-city hellhole with shall-issue...and last year, for the first time in 40 years, Michigan's overall violent crime rate was lower than Ohio's.

    THAT shook the hell out of the Ohio legislature and was a major factor in Ohio's recent shall-issue reform.

    Upshot: keep a close eye on Detroit's violence/murder levels over the next 5 to 10 years, pending of course reforms in even worse areas like WashDC and Chicago.

    Detroit is going to be our main proving ground.
     
  7. Sisco

    Sisco Member

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    Kansas has open carry too, subject to local ordinance. I was once talking to a LEO about this, asked what he supposed would happen if I openly carried my 1911.
    He said although there was no law against it, more than likely some concerned citizen would panic and call 911. Cops would show up and ask what your intentions were.
    In short, you can do it but you won't do it hassle free.
     
  8. 50 Freak

    50 Freak Member

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    Reasons not to get a CCW:

    1) bad temper
    2) a need to show off
    3) carelessness
    4) you'll shoot your eye out:D
     
  9. Diggler

    Diggler Member

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    Do you think the reason for this could be that gun owners got more organized and active, joining with state legislature to give Slick Willie and his administration the finger?
     
  10. joab

    joab Member

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    No not really because the whole thing started way before Clinton. The first CCW state was Fla in '87 during Uncle Ronnie's term and continued on through Papa Bush and Slick Willie and now under Dub's reign things have slowed down a bit but to be fair there aren't that many states left. Notice that the place where all those politicians hang out is still gun free.
    If our gun owning bretheren had been so powerful as to change generation old laws that prohibited concealed carry, laws which would have been very easy to call "common sense laws", and that many if not most gun owners just accepted as fate, wouldn't they have been strong enough to prevent the idiotic AWB or the safety lock laws or the gun a month laws, or any of the many other "for the children" laws that have seemingly sailed throught the Democrat controlled House and Senate during the same time frame.
     
  11. dance varmint

    dance varmint Member

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    - See thread about a Ft. Wayne, IN, newspaper considering publishing the names of all CCW holders.

    - Where the restrictions on carry are so draconian it's a joke, such as car or restaurants.

    - Requirements to register the guns to be carried.

    - (Reasons not to even apply in may-issue states) Requirements for a reason/need, references, and invasion of privacy, e.g. interviewing neighbors.
     
  12. pax

    pax Member

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    Absolutely none of those apply to Oregon. :cool:

    In Oregon, with a CCW you can carry almost everywhere -- even into schools and bars.

    There is no requirement to register your gun, or to qualify with a particular gun. You do have to take a class, but no one writes down what gun you use or anything like that.

    You do not have to give the state a reason you want a CCW or "prove need." You do have to show that you haven't been involuntarily committed to the loony bin, and that's about it. No invasion of privacy issue unless you think that the very idea of applying for a CCW permit is itself an invasion of privacy.

    Honestly, Oregon is one of the best states in the union for CCW laws -- though of course Alaska and Vermont are better.

    pax
     
  13. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    Florida was really pioneering in that regard, but Florida gunowners have long been well organized.

    Shall-issue CCW really took off after 1994, in part because gunowners woke up after the AWB was passed in '94, and in part because state legislators in pro-gun states were frustrated with Clinton & Co. for overrulling them on "AW" issues. I was in Florida in 1994, and Florida had just overwhelmingly REJECTED a statewide AWB when the Clinton administration shoved it down our throats.

    Look at a graph of new shall-issue states against the year that the law was passed, and I think you'll see the rate increase after 1994.
     
  14. RobW

    RobW Member

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    In essence, it is not only gun-registration, but also gun-owner registration! As far as I know, the 2nd Amendment says nothing about CCW!
     
  15. DMK

    DMK Member

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    I can think of one, but it's highly debatable.

    If you have a Concealed Carry Permit in some states, it is noted on your licence. If a LEO pulls you over and runs you through the computer, it comes up. You are also required by law is some states to notify an LEO if approached in any other way. Both of these scearios allow the officer to disarm you at his/her whim.

    Now, I have no problem with officer safety, but unholstering a loaded weapon and toying around with it makes for an accident waiting to happen IMO.

    If you don't have a permit and are carrying illegally, you are breaking the law, but have no obligation to incriminate yourself. If you are concealing well, and otherwise a good, law abiding citizen, he has no reason to search you. In fact, you might even be protected by the 4th and 5th amendments, where a citizen licenced for carry my not! (How many stories have we read here where honest folks are patted down when the LEO finds they have a carry permit)

    All that said, I do not encourage illegal carry or breaking any other laws. I do have a carry permit.
     
  16. dwkennedy

    dwkennedy Member

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    In Oklahoma, having a license opens you up to a bunch of administrative penalties.

    If you are convicted of, say, pointing a firearm at someone without an acceptable cause, you can be punished by fines and prison. As a permit holder, you have the additional pleasure of having the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation (the okie FBI, not a court) sit in judgement of you. If they decide you've screwed up they can access an additional administrative penalty When you signed up for the permit you gave them the permission to do this, regardless if the situation had anything to do with a concealed carry firearm or not. Just another right you must forfeit for the 'privilege' of keeping and bearing arms.

    If you stay out of trouble you'll not have to deal with this- yet another good reason to stay out of trouble (as if we needed another.)
     
  17. Cool Hand Luke 22:36

    Cool Hand Luke 22:36 member

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    Yes,

    In Virginia a carry permit requires providing:

    Name
    Home Address
    Home Phone No.
    Place of Employment
    Work Phone No.
    Place of Birth
    Date of Birth
    Fingerprints
    Social Security No.

    All of this to be witnessed by a notary, and all of this is public information available for any identity thief.
     
  18. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

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    The number-one reason not to get a concealed-weapons permit is that by applying for the permit you are formally surrendering your Constitutional right to bear arms in exchange for the state-granted privilege of doing so. By getting the permit you are at least sanctioning, if not actually abetting an illegal and immoral action by the state.

    That said, I will eventually apply for a may-issue/will-not-issue California CCW permit. I guess being a free-range subject is better than being a caged subject. :(

    ~G. Fink
     
  19. bountyhunter

    bountyhunter member

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    One really good reason: the person is clueless and untrained in gun skills. I read a post where some guy said: "I just got my CCW, so now I need to buy a gun. Which one should I get?"

    Makes me both sad and terrified.
     
  20. Patent Works

    Patent Works Member

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    Oregon

    Actually, Oregon is not quite as good as it looks on paper. Courts there have rules that Sheriffs may add their own application information requirements, in spite of the statutory requirement that the applications be "uniform throughtout the state." This can include private medical records.

    Good legislature, bad activist judges.

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=or&vol=A112471&invol=1

    "Only one of these specific firearm-related preemption provisions, § 166.170, has been discussed in case law. Langlotz v. Noelle, 39 P.3d 271 (2002), a court of appeals decision, upheld a Multnomah County background check form used for handgun permitting that required more detailed information from applicants than state law mandates. Plaintiff, after being denied a concealed handgun permit because he refused to answer certain questions on the application form, challenged the sheriff’s form on several grounds, including that the sheriff, in adding questions to the application form that are not expressly mentioned in § 166.291 (Oregon’s concealed handgun licensing statute), had acted contrary to § 166.170(1) by regulating firearms beyond what the state permitted. Langlotz, 39 P.3d at 274. In allowing county sheriffs to require more detailed information on concealed weapons permit application forms than provided for under state law, the court stated that “n enacting the statute that is the subject of this case, ORS 166.291, the legislature has ‘expressly authorized’ [the county sheriff] to regulate the possession and transportation of concealed firearms.†Langlotz, 39 P.3d at 274."
    http://www.firearmslawcenter.org/content/oregon.asp
     
  21. Eskimo Jim

    Eskimo Jim Member

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    You're on a government list for:
    1) social Security
    2) Irs
    3)BATFE if you buy a firearm on the 4473 form
    4) I'm sure you're on a list of workers according to OSHA, IRS, Department of Labor
    5) list of voters
    6) list of drivers
    7) list of car owners/insured to drive
    8) list of high school graduates or public school attendee
    9 through 1000) some other list for some other reason

    Get the permit. It is a nice option to be able to legally carry if you desire. It's better to have the permit and not use it than to need it and have to wait to get it if it is available in the future. Also reciprocity etc with other states.

    Here's a great reason to get the permit, It will keep your NRA or GOA card company in your wallet!!! :D

    Someone, (Fienstein, Kennedy, Schumer, Brady, Wrangle, Kerry, Annan etc) doesn't want you to have one!!! :evil:

    -Jim
     
  22. bogie

    bogie Member

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    Why _not_ to get a permit?

    If carrying a gun increases the amount of metal on your body, assuming you're already wearing your tinfoil hat, to the point where you attract lighting...

    JEEZUS KAYRIST, PEOPLE!
     
  23. Swamprabbit

    Swamprabbit Member

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    I can think of NO reason to NOT get one if you are of the mind to carry a firearm at all. As alluded to above, there are enough "lists" already existing on us for this to make much of a difference. I know that it wouldn't take a hill of beans effort to find out who the gun owners are IF that was ever an issue. Frankly, I'm not too worried about that.
     
  24. Black_Talon

    Black_Talon Member

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    I have a friend that lives in Idaho and uses a variation of this as his reason not to CCW. He claims that they've imported a bunch of anti-gun ex-Kali cops to Idaho and if they're the ones that pull you over, you'll be hassled a whole bunch.

    Here's a guy that's spent 20 years working as a gunsmith, and the last 10 years working for several of the largest gun-related companies in the US, is perfectly comfortable around guns and yet he won't CCW because he's afraid of getting rousted if he gets pulled over. :rolleyes:



    ......while we down here in the PRK remain unarmed and defenseless. :(
     
  25. itgoesboom

    itgoesboom member

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    Ok, heres the deal.

    If you get the permit,

    You can carry legally, not worry about having ammo in the same compartment of your car as your gun when you go to the range, can have a means of defense in case you are attacked, and will probably be given a certain extra amount of latitude if you are pulled over, get a certain satisfaction of knowing that you are helping the gun-owners cause by uping the numbers of CCWs and showing that we aren't likely to commit crimes.

    If you don't get the permit,

    You may not carry legally, the Government will still have plenty of information about you (4473, CC statements, ect), and you decide to still carry, and get caught, you will lose youre rights to vote and own firearms. PERIOD. GONE. Plus, what happens if you do need to defend yourself, even if it is a good shoot your going to get charged with a felony anyways.


    Oregon's process is pretty simple. Take the class, pay your dues, fill out the app, and your done. 45 days or less.


    Very few places you can't carry, and, it gives you the means to defend your life and the lives of those you care about.

    But, by all means, please don't carry if you plan on drinking while carrying, can't control your temper, pick fights, or want it for bragging rights.

    I.G.B.

    Edited to add,

    Chet, don't listen to all the naysayers. If you feel as though you are a responsible gunowner, and would appreciate to have the means to defend yourself, than I say go for it.
     
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