Any worthwhile mods to NAA Guardian in .32ACP?

[PX15]

saltydog452:

As I said in my previous post Larry Seecamp has admitted there were problems, and apologized.. He can't do more than that.

Seecamp is not a large firearms corporation.. It is a small, family owned business, and apparently years ago it was having problems.. I hate it that you had such a bad experience but I really think it wasn't a matter of "arrogance" as much as it was too many people wanted too many pistols and capacity and manpower simply wasn't sufficient to provide.. Apparently customer service suffered accordingly and thats a bad thing.. But that problem has been resolved, corrected, fixed, whatever term you chose to use and it's ancient history. But,if you chose to wear your Seecamp complaint like an albatross around your neck forever you certainly are within your rights to do so.

A person screws up, admits it, apologizes for it, corrects the problem.. What more can you ask?

I have read pretty much every post on the seecamp forum for months and I've yet to hear anyone complain about a recoil spring problem. The common thread that runs thru the seecamp forum 99% of the time is AMMO related. Folks by nature want to try the latest and greatest 32cal self defense round and some of it simply will not function properly in the diminutive little pistol.. That is a given going in with a Seecamp and I've yet seen anyone whose Seecamp LWS32 would not function with one of the two recommended rounds (Silvertip, Speer Gold Dots ). Some folks pistols will do quite well with other rounds , such as Cor-Bon, but the pistols were not designed for other ammo and if you are determined to use other ammo don't complain when it won't function properly using it.

As to the other gentleman's remark about lack of availability of extra factory magazines in the past all you have to do now is contact Seecamp via phone (talk to Sandi or Sue), fax, or usps and for $35.00+shipping they will have one or more on the way to you immediately. I think this price holds true both for the 32 and 380cal magazines, but I could be mistaken.

When I ordered both of my Seecamps I did pay $35.00 extra each time for a 2nd magazine and received them with the pistols. As a member of the Seecamp forum when I placed an order for a personalized Seecamp LWS32 for my bride I ordered an extra magazine and Larry personally engraved his signature on it for her.(or "signed it".) The signed magazine is a one time deal for any forum member(free), but it just shows that a small customer oriented company such as that owned by Larry Seecamp can do those little "special" things a larger corporation owned company might not be able to.

The Seecamp LWS32 that was being scalped at $600+ several years ago, and then with a waiting period is available now at less than the retail price of $425.00 There IS a waiting list of over a year for the LWS380, and the price IS $795.00. Again scalpers are getting 1000+ for the LWS380's in places. Larry Seecamp is NOT doing the price gouging, it's a dealer "supply and demand" just as you would find with a car dealer or anything else.

In my humble opinion arrogance was never a problem with Larry Seecamp and the Seecamp company.. I honestly think Larry was indeed overwhelmed by demand, understaffed and customer service suffered. You were caught in that period of terrible or non-existent customer service and I don't blame you for being upset. If the Seecamp company were being run in the same fashion today you would STILL have a complaint. But it's not.

I recommend to ANYONE who might have an interest in the fine Seecamp pistols and wish a birds eye view of Larry Seecamp and the Seecamp way of doing business you monitor the www.seecamp.com forum for a week or so. Don't register, don't post... Just read the posts of others. Read any complaints that pop up, and see how Larry handles them. Just sit back and watch the interaction between the members of the Seecamp forum and make up your own mind. There is even a sub-section entitled: Ask Larry Seecamp, and anyone can ask Larry a question and it will be answered in pretty short order.

I belong to several firearm forums and I have never found a nicer bunch of folks than those on the extended Seecamp family forum.

In my limited experience this is only the 2nd, that's TWO folks with a continuing complaint about Seecamp. That is saltydog452, and Kevin Q. I believe both of those issues were based on incidents several years ago, and not recent Seecamp history. I'm sure many others over that period had problems too, but you just don't hear much about them.

I DO know that the few folks who have come on the www.seecamp.forum with issues have had those issues resolved in a very short time to their complete satisfaction.. Generally folks who come on the forum in foul moods because of one issue or another shortly comes BACK on the forum posting how gratified they were to have their problems resolved so quickly, and how unusual it was to be able to talk directly to the president of the company with their problem.. Then we wind up with another happy www.seecamp.com forum member.

I am more than willing to fess up that I have become a Seecamp "homer".. I have been so pleased with every aspect of my Seecamp dealings, both with the actual firearms and the forum that I have turned into a big Seecamp fan. I have two LWS32's now with one LWS380 on order. I have sold other guns to buy the Seecamps, and imo it has been a wonderful trade in doing so. I enjoy the give and take on the www.seecamp.forum and I honestly do not believe there is a better, higher quality mousegun in this world than the Seecamp.

saltydog452, if you take offense at anything I've said, it wasn't deliberate. I have admitted you had a legitimate issue with Seecamp years ago.. I just think if you check out Seecamp NOW you might realize the past problems were real, but temporary, and never intentional.. And, no longer exists..

If you still prefer not to deal with the Seecamp of 2007 that is certainly your choice. And again, I apologize personally if my comments have been offensive to you.

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

 

[GunNut]

Here is the correct link to the Seecamp forum.http://www.seecamp.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl

 

[NCHornet]

I reckon I am just as big of a NAA fan as PX15 is a Seecamp fan, but Larry is not the only one that listens to his customers. The owner of NAA, a much larger manufacturer of firearms, also is available to everyone. You can email him directly on the NAA website and he will personally return the email. I emailed him with a question and a suggestion last Saturday evening and to my surprised there was a reply from him on Sunday morning. Sandy also visits the NAA message boards and replies to any topics he can add something to. If the new Seecamp 380 has a MSRP of $800 this is almost double the cost of the Guardian in the same caliber. Given both guns are 100% reliable, at least my Guardian is and hopefully your Seecamp will be once you receive it, this means folks are paying around $350 more for the Seecamp. I have shot quite a few Seecamps and I frankly don't see the difference, but I also don't see a Colt Python being worth a grand either!! I reckon some P3AT owners could post the same thing regarding the cost of a Guardian, but I believe it doesn't take a gunsmith to see a $200 difference between the P3AT and the Guardian. As I said we all have to make decisions on what we feel is best for us and our unique circumstances, some feel well protected with a KelTec P3AT, while yet others want nothing less than a Rohrbaugh, go figure??? To each his own.

 

[PX15]

NCHornet:

I have absolutely no argument with your post..

I have owned my first generation "AA" series for probably 8-10 years.. I initially bought my Guardian quite frankly because I couldn't afford a Seecamp. I have never been disppointed in the least with my Guardian.. Early on it had feeding issues, but those were fully resolved by one trip back to the factory under warranty, and I was even sent back a free new magazine for my inconvenience. You will never find me knocking NAA Guardians.

I have a KelTec P32 that I bought several years ago just to see for myself what the plastic pistols were all about. My KelTec, to this moment, has NEVER failed in any way. You would think I trust it with my life with complete confidence, but I don't. Reading the KelTec forums will scare you to death at the folks whose KT's work perfectly, until they DON"T.... Apparently KelTec pistols are more prone than Guardians and Seecamps OVER THE LONG HAUL to self destruct.. I'm sure there are a gazillion KT's fans who disagree with me on this. But, perception is reality and my perception is that you are in much greater danger of a KT pistol failing you at a critical moment than you are the Guardian or Seecamp.

As for pricing of the mouseguns in general. My KelTec P32 was $225.. My NAA Guardian (years ago) was $425.. My first Seecamp a few months ago was $400...

For me all three pistols at this moment will do the same job. I expect the KelTec to fail at some point, so I don't have faith in it.. (My bad, not the fault of the gun). The NAA Guardian is just enough larger than the Seecamp that I can cc the Seecamp better.

I was a big NAA Guardian fan until I got my Seecamp. I am STILL a NAA Guardian fan, just a bigger Seecamp fan now.

As for the disparity in prices on the various 380's...

Is the Guardian $250 more "gun" than the KelTec?
Is the Seecamp $350 more "gun" than the Guardian.

It all depends on who you are asking.

I'll bet you'll say "yep, all factors considered, the NAA is worth the difference over the Keltec, but the Seecamp is not worth the difference over the Guardian.

I would say "Yep, all factors considered, the NAA is indeed worth the difference over the KelTec, and the Seecamp is indeed worth the difference over the Guardian.

Additionally I would suggest for folks who chose to spend less, or have less to spend the KelTec P32 is an excellent choice. I would suggest to a KelTec owner that "carried a lot", "shot a little" is good advice with any mousegun, but particularly in the case of the P32.

I just have no interest in "putting down" the Guardian to "build up" the Seecamp.. As you mentioned regarding the price of the Colt Python what a firearm is worth is determined by what a person, or many people are willing to pay for that firearm.

Seecamps have a particular "nitch" in the "mousegun nitch" that simply, FOR ME, offers more than the competition. I don't mean that in any way, shape, or form a knock on Sandy Chishom, NAA, or even KelTec. It's all personal choice, and I think it's great that we have those choices.

I'm a dedicated Seecamp kinda guy... I just love 'em.. They do for me more that any other mousegun I've ever owned or shot, and I want more, and more of them...

Bet you are the same way about NAA Guardians, and that sounds fair to me.

Shortly we'll both probably see a Keltec poster on here offering the same opinion on his/her beloved P32...

Best Wishes,

Jesse

P.S. I think I mentioned that I still have my NAA Guardian and have no intentions of parting with it? I KNOW it's a very good pistol..

 

[NCHornet]

PX15,
Not trying to bust your balls but I reread your post and do have a comment. Here is your quote:

Talking about hitting a target from a mousegun, with or without sights at 7 yards under a crisis condition is a joke.
Sir, I surely wouldn't call my range time "A JOKE" My practice range for all my CC weapons is 25ft and under. If I cannot hit a COM sized target at a distance of at least 15 feet the gun will not be carried. BTW, Yes I can place 6 rounds of 32acp on a pie plate at 21ft.I just wish everyone reading this post will take the time to walk off seven yards and then honestly say they think they would be legally within their rights to even shoot at someone that far away, and secondly the chances if that happened they could actually hit anything.
I can think of countless numbers of defense situations where I would be "within my rights" to use deadly force on somebody. Maybe you feel the only time a pocket gun should be used is when your attacker is right on top of you, sorry I plan on stopping the threat long before he gets this close. Unlike other people my Guardian is not carried as a BUG, as the chances of my Glock 23 failing are very slim, my Guardian is carried as a second primary gun. You see depending on the situation, a hand in the pocket may draw much less attention then drawing my sidearm, so there is a choice that will have to made depending on the situation as to which gun I would choose to draw. Because of this it is important that I train with all of my CC weapons out to realistic distances.

I'm not talking hitting a pie plate at the range under normal conditions, I'm talking a heart pounding, adrenalin rushing, unexpected confrontation that is happening "right now" and is happening so fast that all you can do is hopefully have time to pull your concealed firearm and shoot AT the bad guy. You cannot look for a sight picture under such conditions you just don't have time or a history of experience to allow you the presence of mind to do that.

Unless you can tell me how to train under real life circumstances than my "pie plates" will have to do. The truth is it is impossible to duplicate the adrenaline dump, tunnel vision, as well as hearing changes that all take place in a real SD situation. This is why training movements to muscle memory is so important. Unfortunately I have had to draw my weapon in a SD situation but thank the Lord I didn't have to fire, my gun was drawn and the target clearly withing my sights before I realized it, I contribute this to proper training and muscle memory. The BG was clearly in my gun sights and I was not simply "point shooting". Different circumstances will dictate how long you have to take proper aim, because this time can be very short it is very important to have this muscle memory established. This has nothing to do with a Seecamp. Guardian or P3AT it is a fact of proper training and I simply wanted to clarify my position on this issue as I take my training very, very serious and I am now training my 15 year old son, it is defintely not a joke to me.

As far as the rest of this thread I believe we have established that we both admire two different pocket pistols and I think it is good to disagree sometimes. I think we both can admit that the Guardian and Seecamp are both quality weapons and a buyer couldn't go wrong with either of them
Take Care
NCHornet

 

[saltydog452]

I don't know about the current business attitude of the Seacamp family.

I wish them success.

Kinda strange though that their business practice improvement came about after NAA became a competitor.

Make of it what you will.

Two Seacamps and the collective corporate/family/or whatever, indifference was enough for me.

Regret does not erase history.

salty.

 

[NCHornet]

I share your same feelings on the KelTecs, I looked at them three or four times and each time a low still voice said "ARE YOU KIDDING PUT THAT THING DOWN, NOW!!" seriously, I tend to research my purchases to death especially firearms and that is one gun I will never own, unless some serious changes are made. Before I would recommend the P3AT or the 32 version I would point somebody to the little Tomcat Beretta's they can be had used for mid $200's. As far as pricing goes I have done very well with my purchases lately thanks to other forum emebers. I just picked up the 380 Guardian with about 100 flawless rounds through it, with 5 spare mags all with extensions and one without and a Nemisis pocket holster for $265, the gun was only a couple months old and the seller had paid $489 for just the gun so I did very well. The 32 Gutter Sniped pistol I paid $285 and it came with a $100 worth of defensive ammunition so I did very well.
Take care
NCHornet

 

[PX15]

NCHornet"

Thanks for not trying to "bust my balls"..

I simply do not think that 99% of persons cc a mousegun spend the time at the range that you do, and more power to you, nor have the skill under the conditions I mentioned to hit a target with any consistency.

I am a senior citizen with declining vision, shaky hands, and I know I don't have those skills, nor would I probably be able to acquire them thru training.

My mousegun is indeed, for me, a "get off me" last resort firearm. I won't be pulling any trigger until the bg is close enough that I can assure myself that I can indeed plant 7 Gold Dots into his person. As for me personally I don't need sights on my Seecamp as they would do me no good anyway. My personal threat level is so low that unless I mosey into the local "stop and rob" at the wrong time and interrupt a felony in progress I probably shall never need my cc of choice. Everyones circumstance is different and what one person considers the bare minimum for his/her self defense varies from one extreme to the other. All I can do is prepare myself as best I can for a situation that hopefully never materializes.. That's all anyone can do.

You and I have a disagreement in this matter and I think the solution without either one of us coming off looking like a butthole is to just agree to disagree.

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

 

[PX15]

saltydog452:

Rather than beat this dead horse any further I will close our dialog by agreeing with you 100% that the chances are excellent that Seecamps business practice improvement was helped by the appearance of the NAA Guardian as direct competition in the mousegun market..

I agree because I believe the temporary problems you encountered with Seecamp was in fact a direct result of Seecamps trying to meet the overwhelming demand of the market for Seecamps to the detriment of customer service.

Or, obviously when demand slackened, more time could be dedicated to customer service problems.

Now, here we find ourselves years later.. Demand for Seecamps is still tremendous, but for those buyers who need instant gratification, or need an immediate firearm for other reasons the Guardians, Tomcats and Keltecs are an option not available before.

Competition is ALWAYS good. Supply and Demand ALWAYS works.

We are all winners...

I was just saying the issue you have with poor Seecamp customer service, or business practice in the past has been corrected.

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

 

[saltydog452]

Good for them..that was a wise change in attitude.

salty.