I'm on the verge of ordering a North American Arms Guardian (for rear pocket carry) and am undecided between the .380 and .32 NAA. Is there a distinct possible reliability advantage of the bottlenecked .32 NAA over the standard .380 in a small gun? The .32 NAA vs. the .380 seems like the same as a .357 Sig vs. 9mm, but I'd likely only get the .32 NAA if it generally offers "better" reliability. Thanks.
.32 NAA vs. .380?
- Thread starter BADUNAME4
- Start date
- Status
Grunt
Member
I can buy my .380 ACP ammo at Wal-Mart. Where do you get your .32 NAA ammo?
More like .357 SIG vs. .40 S&W. The general consensus of actual wound ballistics experts, instead of the opinions of people who slept through high school physics (cough cough energy transfer cough) is that .357 SIG basically replicates 9mm terminal effect, but with more flash, blast, and recoil, and less magazine capacity.
Same with .32 NAA. Pretty much replicates the anemic terminal effect of .32 ACP, but with more of a fuss on the shooter's end.
The only potential benefit of the .32 NAA is the higher velocity bullets may be able to penetrate the skull more reliably than a slower, heavier (but still very light-for-caliber) .380 slug. Of course, your chances of hitting the head with a mousegun aren't too good to begin with.
I'd recommend going with the .380, and keeping it loaded with FMJs. .32 ACP, .32 NAA, and .380 ACP just don't generate enough momentum to have both expansion and adequate penetration.
Same with .32 NAA. Pretty much replicates the anemic terminal effect of .32 ACP, but with more of a fuss on the shooter's end.
The only potential benefit of the .32 NAA is the higher velocity bullets may be able to penetrate the skull more reliably than a slower, heavier (but still very light-for-caliber) .380 slug. Of course, your chances of hitting the head with a mousegun aren't too good to begin with.
I'd recommend going with the .380, and keeping it loaded with FMJs. .32 ACP, .32 NAA, and .380 ACP just don't generate enough momentum to have both expansion and adequate penetration.
xd9fan
Member
I have a seecamp 32acp and use hallow points.....love the gun.
MICHAEL T
Member
32NAA verses 380 Well lets use CorBon numbers since that were you will be getting 32 NAA ammo from
32NAA
60grJHP 1200fps 192ftlbs
71gr fmj 1000fps 158ftlbs thisfrom 2.5" barrel
380 auto
90grJHP 1050fps 220ftlbs
70gr powerball 1250fps 243ftlbs these from 3"barrel
380 bigger hole and more power lots of 380 ammo out their and try to find 32NAA
32NAA
60grJHP 1200fps 192ftlbs
71gr fmj 1000fps 158ftlbs thisfrom 2.5" barrel
380 auto
90grJHP 1050fps 220ftlbs
70gr powerball 1250fps 243ftlbs these from 3"barrel
380 bigger hole and more power lots of 380 ammo out their and try to find 32NAA
palerider1
member
Grunt said:I can buy my .380 ACP ammo at Wal-Mart. Where do you get your .32 NAA ammo?
i agree with grunt. ammunition availability is a serious concern to take into consideration. i went into walmart and the guy didnt even know about 10mm ammo, said he never heard of it...lol whoa!!!!training for that job must really be intense.
Optical Serenity
Member
Grunt said:I can buy my .380 ACP ammo at Wal-Mart. Where do you get your .32 NAA ammo?
+1
This is every reason in the world for me to go with the .380.
1 old 0311
member
My gunshop carries the .32 N.A.A. I bought the .380 because of ammo cost.
Kevin
Kevin
ulflyer
Member
Slight Highjack
I have a Guardian 32acp and 380acp. The 380 has one hard trigger spring; so much so that after a couple of mags my hand is give out. Not so on the 32. Its a very comfortable, easy trigger pull. My question is; why should the 380 be harder than the 32 as they both fire the same small primer? Any ideas how to improve on the 380?
I have a Guardian 32acp and 380acp. The 380 has one hard trigger spring; so much so that after a couple of mags my hand is give out. Not so on the 32. Its a very comfortable, easy trigger pull. My question is; why should the 380 be harder than the 32 as they both fire the same small primer? Any ideas how to improve on the 380?
mtnbkr
Member
I never understood why they went with such light bullets for the 32NAA. An 85gr XTP at 1000fps (completely doable from my P32 in 32acp) would've performed much better IMO.
Chris
Chris
Grunt
Member
ulflyer said:
I agree here too. I used to have a .32 ACP Guardian but got rid of it after I got a Kel-Tec P-32. The trigger was FAR better, it was lighter, flatter, has a slide stop (the Guardian had a last round slide stop of sorts...the brass would stove-pipe every time rather than eject
) and IIRC, the P32 also holds one more round than my old .32 Guardian. I kept it around for a little while after getting the Kel-Tec but eventually wound up getting rid of it since I never used it.lee n. field
Member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2002
- Messages
- 4,319
Don't forget, he's also covering automotive and kids toys. Lots to keep track of.
Grunt
Member
lee n. field said:Don't forget, he's also covering automotive and kids toys. Lots to keep track of.
You see, this is why I don't put any stock into the Wal-Mart bashing, WAY too much misinformation out there. I used to work at the Wal-Mart in Destin, FL for about 3 months when we were first stationed down here. Employees in the sporting good department do NOT work in automotive, toys or any other department. They may assist customers asking them for help finding something in that department but the do not actively go into those departments as part of their normal work routine.
Another thing to consider, some folks think Wal-Mart is some evil corporation. Well, that is more evil, the Wal-Mart employee that is not immersed in the product he sells or the mom-and-pop gun store owner that will tell customers that a High Point is just as good as a Sig or Glock simply because that's what he has in stock?
MCgunner
Member
I don't know why the .32 NAA nor the .357 Sig, really. Neither can improve significantly on their parent cartridges on energy, so what's the point? More velocity means, perhaps, more bullet expansion and, YES, energy transfer, maybe. I have my doubts to be honest. And, when you get down to .380 power levels, you start to worry more about adequate penetration than bullet expansion. Now, the .40S&W with lighter bullets match the energies of the .357 sig with decent velocity. So, I don't see the ballistic advantage there either. I've read that the bottle neck cartridge has an advantage in feeding reliability, but a good auto with a straight case cartridge doesn't really have feeding problems in the first place.
As said, where you gonna buy that Cor Bon .32 stuff? I'd handload it, but handloading small cartridges is a PITA. I handload .380 and it's almost more trouble than it's worth.
Just get the .380. The above Cor Bon numbers speak for themselves.
As said, where you gonna buy that Cor Bon .32 stuff? I'd handload it, but handloading small cartridges is a PITA. I handload .380 and it's almost more trouble than it's worth.
Just get the .380. The above Cor Bon numbers speak for themselves.
lanternlad1
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2007
- Messages
- 770
Copied from NAA's own website:
"At this point in time, .32 NAA Ammunition is sometimes hard to find. If your dealer does not carry .32 NAA Ammo, you may order it from North American Arms."
A bit of a pain if you ask me...
"At this point in time, .32 NAA Ammunition is sometimes hard to find. If your dealer does not carry .32 NAA Ammo, you may order it from North American Arms."
A bit of a pain if you ask me...
Assuming shot placement is paramount, and that you are accurate, I'm of the persuasion that unless you get into the velocity ranges of high power rifles, there is no advantage to lowering the caliber size to gain energy. Energy dump for pretty much any modern handgun caliber is a myth IMO. If you want to see some devastating "kinetic energy dump", work up the numbers for a 90 mph fastball. Getting beaned hurts, but taking one for the team generally isn't deadly.The velocities just aren't high enough, and the same goes for any caliber that isn't fast enough to turn tissue to mush. You generally don't get those velocities out of handguns. If you get into some of the more potent revolver calibers, then maybe you might have a leg to stand on, just barely, with the whole energy thing. Otherwise I don't think it really amounts to much in terms of effectively stopping an attacker. As long as there's enough velocity to successfully penetrate an attacker's vitals, anything above and beyond that is just going to manifest itself in the forms of recoil and noise. A bigger hole, on the other hand, helps. So, IMO it's a bad bargain to give up the bigger caliber to gain more speed for these kinds of handgun calibers.
Between the .32 NAA and .380, I'll take the bigger mouse. You're already carrying the "bulk" of the bigger cased ammo, the (in most cases) larger gun, and dealing with lower capacity, why go with a smaller bullet than the gun can shoot? These necked-down calibers don't make sense to me.
Jason
Between the .32 NAA and .380, I'll take the bigger mouse. You're already carrying the "bulk" of the bigger cased ammo, the (in most cases) larger gun, and dealing with lower capacity, why go with a smaller bullet than the gun can shoot? These necked-down calibers don't make sense to me.
Jason
rantingredneck
Member
As a .32NAA owner I'll speak up in defense of the cartridge, but before I do let me point out that until today's posts this thread was a year and a half old. I think the OP has probably made his choice long before now Especially given that both guns are currently out of production....
I've had the .32NAA guardian for about 4 years now. The Guardian pistols in general are very durable and shootable guns. Mine has performed flawlessly since day 1. It is surprisingly accurate for a gun with a 2.5 inch barrel and no sights. I can keep 18 rounds (3 mags) in the 9 ring with most in the 10 ring at 7 yds. Mine did that last round stovepipe once. On the first mag fired. After that initial break in it never did it again.
As to the ballistics between the two cartridges they are probably like arguing over whether 9mm or .45ACP is the better caliber. They each do what they do and do it well if you do your part. From a 2.5 inch barrel Guardian, though I prefer the .32NAA for one reason. It was designed for that exact platform. In barrels that short the .380 gives up some velocity. Yes it is heavier, but not terribly so. They are both mouseguns after all.
As to ammo availability:
No Walmart doesn't carry it. But they don't carry high end hollowpoint defensive ammo in any caliber. I tend to buy the "good stuff" to carry in my defensive pistols. My local shop orders it for me in whatever quantities I want. I typically order 4-5 boxes at a time for about 17.00 per box.
All of that being said, I have my local dealer on the lookout for a good used .380 Guardian for me. I'd love to have one to go with my .32NAA.
Especially given that both guns are currently out of production....I've had the .32NAA guardian for about 4 years now. The Guardian pistols in general are very durable and shootable guns. Mine has performed flawlessly since day 1. It is surprisingly accurate for a gun with a 2.5 inch barrel and no sights. I can keep 18 rounds (3 mags) in the 9 ring with most in the 10 ring at 7 yds. Mine did that last round stovepipe once. On the first mag fired. After that initial break in it never did it again.
As to the ballistics between the two cartridges they are probably like arguing over whether 9mm or .45ACP is the better caliber. They each do what they do and do it well if you do your part. From a 2.5 inch barrel Guardian, though I prefer the .32NAA for one reason. It was designed for that exact platform. In barrels that short the .380 gives up some velocity. Yes it is heavier, but not terribly so. They are both mouseguns after all.
As to ammo availability:
No Walmart doesn't carry it. But they don't carry high end hollowpoint defensive ammo in any caliber. I tend to buy the "good stuff" to carry in my defensive pistols. My local shop orders it for me in whatever quantities I want. I typically order 4-5 boxes at a time for about 17.00 per box.
All of that being said, I have my local dealer on the lookout for a good used .380 Guardian for me. I'd love to have one to go with my .32NAA.
tinygnat219
Member
Wouldn't touch .32 NAA for the shear reason that I can find .380 in any gunshop. The .32 NAA is supposed to give .380-like performance. Why pay more for a hard to find cartridge that gives you like performance in something that already exists? Odd, I know.
This is an old thread, but I thought I'd add my two cents. I purchased my .32NAA Guardian during the "great .380 ammo shortage" a while back when it was tough to find either caliber. .380 is more widely available now, but it's not exactly hard to purchase .32NAA ammo directly from NAA. I've done it twice now; I just called the number, spoke with the very nice and helpful person at NAA who answered the phone, and a few days later the ammo arrived at my door. CTD and Midway both carry it now too.
$11 for a box of 20 hollowpoints, by the way...try finding ANY .380 self-defense ammo for that price. And $24 for a box of 50 FMJ rounds isn't all that horrible either.
I stocked up a bit, as it's true that most gunshops don't stock this cartridge. But let's face it, how many of us actually fire hundreds and hundreds of rounds through our pocket pistols? I know that for optimal proficiency, it would be a good idea--but really, when I go out to the range, I spend my time and money practicing with my primary carry, not my occasional-carry BUG. The cost of the ammo doesn't matter that much--I'm not going to be plinking with this pistol, and it just hurts too darn much to shoot 100 rounds in a row through any pistol this size. I go out and shoot a couple of mags' worth just to be sure I can still accurately fire the thing (the CT grips make a world of difference at 7 yards, by the way), then switch to the bigger guys.
$11 for a box of 20 hollowpoints, by the way...try finding ANY .380 self-defense ammo for that price. And $24 for a box of 50 FMJ rounds isn't all that horrible either.
I stocked up a bit, as it's true that most gunshops don't stock this cartridge. But let's face it, how many of us actually fire hundreds and hundreds of rounds through our pocket pistols? I know that for optimal proficiency, it would be a good idea--but really, when I go out to the range, I spend my time and money practicing with my primary carry, not my occasional-carry BUG. The cost of the ammo doesn't matter that much--I'm not going to be plinking with this pistol, and it just hurts too darn much to shoot 100 rounds in a row through any pistol this size. I go out and shoot a couple of mags' worth just to be sure I can still accurately fire the thing (the CT grips make a world of difference at 7 yards, by the way), then switch to the bigger guys.
BIGGBAY90
Member
Thats right
CherokeeScot
Member
When I saw the difference in the size of the hole my new .32 NAA vs my .380 made, I gave my .380 away. I was actually ashamed to ask someone to pay money for it.
I think the math shows one thing on some bullets and the reality shows something entirely different.
I was shooting at a piece of 1/2" plywood. After seeing that, I dont even know if a .32 or even the .380 would penetrate a heavy coat over a suit and shirt and undershirt.
If you aint tried it, dont knock it. If there is any reason the .32 NAA wont become the number one concealed carry weapon worldwide, there is something out there I havent seen yet! Never a problem, no jams. It is very comforting to know what a punch you have in such a small package. Im using the long mags. I have three and I can smoke em all in less than 10 seconds. Gawd its easy to work with. Funny also when people talk about hitting the target. Its kind of like a carpenter measuring the lumber wrong, cutting it wrong and it fits every time! Your aim may suck but you just might hit the target in spite of yourself. Ask my wife, she will tell ya!
I think the math shows one thing on some bullets and the reality shows something entirely different.
I was shooting at a piece of 1/2" plywood. After seeing that, I dont even know if a .32 or even the .380 would penetrate a heavy coat over a suit and shirt and undershirt.
If you aint tried it, dont knock it. If there is any reason the .32 NAA wont become the number one concealed carry weapon worldwide, there is something out there I havent seen yet! Never a problem, no jams. It is very comforting to know what a punch you have in such a small package. Im using the long mags. I have three and I can smoke em all in less than 10 seconds. Gawd its easy to work with. Funny also when people talk about hitting the target. Its kind of like a carpenter measuring the lumber wrong, cutting it wrong and it fits every time! Your aim may suck but you just might hit the target in spite of yourself. Ask my wife, she will tell ya!
- Status