Anybody build their own knives?

[Smoke]

Anybody here build their own knives? I stumbled across the knife kits here

This looks like something I could enjoy. ANyone have experience with these? Are they decent quality steel?

Any help would be appreciated.

Smoke
(Like I have time for another hobby...)

 

[JShirley]

Maybe Don will speak up. There was also another forum member recently, who built a hand ax...

 

[Kingcreek]

Thanks, I had forgotten about those kits.
Those are Darrel Ralph's kits. I haven't tried any but I understand they are pretty nice for the price. IIRC some of the kits offered better steel as upgrades at one time. some options on the handle materials also. Darrel is very well respected as a knifemaker and well liked by the knife community. I just might have to try one of the kits. Hunting season is over and I need a project like that.

 

[Kalindras]

Used to...

...Before I got the grinding bug and started, "rolling my own!"

If you'd like to see what can be done by starting with just a blade blank and some handle material, swing out by my (horribly out of date) webpage, over at:

http://home1.gte.net/capnkaos/index.html

Many of my older pieces are there, and some of them turned out really well, surprisingly. While a lot of knifemakers kind of look down there noses at folks who don't start from scratch with a flat bar of steel, I think it's mostly directed at folks who build from kits, and then turn around and call it "MY" "Handmade" knife.

Kits and blanks, however, are a GREAT way for a person who just wants one or two (or ten) knives, doesn't have the time or knowledge to make and heat-treat the blades, and is looking for something a little more personalized than what they could afford or find at the store.

Smoke, I highly recommend Texas Knifemaker's Supply. They're an outfit down in Houston. Friendly enough folks, with a great selection of kits and materials. Of course, if you're wanting to go shop online, they have a website, too. And, in a shameless plug, I'd also recommend that you check out www.onestopknifeshop.com, as it supports Bladeforums, my other hangout on the web. Stop in to www.bladeforums.com and chat with all the greats. The shoptalk forum is probably the single greatest concentration of knifemaking knowledge on earth, presently!!

Hope this gets you started!! If you have anything you want to ask, feel free to email me!!

(spreading the steel bug!)

 

[Skofnung]

I've done a few...

I started out re-handling some old Ka-Bars and M1 Carbine bayonets that had rusted and had the leather handles rotted off.

I then progressed to cutting up old bandsaw blades (from a sawmill, not from a regular bandsaw) and making everything from cane knives to dirks.

Luckily, one of my best friends from childhood grew up in his fathers blacksmith forge. I spent lots of time from ages 9-14 watching his dad make stuff. Even to this day, if I have a question about heat treating or any other aspect of metalwork, I can call him and ask or just show up at his forge.

Sadly, I have less and less time to do these things as time marches on...

 

[Chris Rhines]

Every so often I'll file/grind a knife from barstock. Good way to kill a couple weeks worth of spare time...

- Chris

 

[Don Gwinn]

While a lot of knifemakers kind of look down there noses at folks who don't start from scratch with a flat bar of steel, I think it's mostly directed at folks who build from kits, and then turn around and call it "MY" "Handmade" knife.

Don't let dorks like that get to you. As long as you're honest about how much of the work was your own, there's nothing wrong with using a kit. Personally, I find that they really aren't that much less work than "making your own," but remember everybody's got a different idea of what that means.

I know makers who look down their noses at people who buy kits, but they grind knives out of machined flat stock they order from Admiral, then send it away to someone like Paul Bos for heat treat. I see nothing wrong with that; Bos does a good job. If you can't, yet, there's no sense in making a bad knife.

I know other makers who look down at those guys because they don't do their own heat treats. These guys went to the trouble of buying furnaces and kilns so they can do their own. I think that's great.

I know other makers who look down at those guys because they don't forge their own blanks from scrap or other sources. These guys forge so that they can control the profile and shape much better and waste a lot less steel. Some of them claim to get better metallurgy from forging, but that's doubtful. I doubt such a blade is any better than the ground blade with the same heat treat, but who knows?

I know other makers who look down on all those guys because they use power tools at all and don't do everything "unplugged," including starting fires with flint and steel and refusing to use modern adhesives or abrasives.

And I know still other makers who actually dig and smelt their own iron ore!


The funny thing is, the higher you go in that chain, the harder it is to find someone who will badmouth the guys who do less of the work themselves. The guys who smelt iron ore, forge blades, polish with stones (or hammer so well they don't seem to need to polish, like Tai Goo) seem to have no desire to speak ill of people who buy kits and do nothing more than bolt the pieces together and sand the grips to shape. These guys know it's about making tools and art in the same day. They live to combine the aesthetic and the pragmatic essences in one piece of metal. They have their own way of doing it, but they could care less how you do it as long as you respect the craft.

 

[PropellerHead]

Well said Don!

I've been forging fixed blades for a few months now. In my opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting together a kit. The only thing wrong is when that kit is then sold as a "handmade" or "custom" knife.

In fact, my daily carry is still a Spyderco Native. In the next few months, I plan on buying a DR kit and putting it together as a daily carry.

Kits are a great way to get your feet wet in knife making. If you really get the bug, you'll end up building your own forge and start scrounging for steel. (Ask me how I know )

As a group, I must say that the knifemakers that I've met have been some of the most helpful, friendly and supportive people I've ever met.

Get the kit and enjoy it. There is a kit knife forum on www.ckdforums.com that should be able to answer any questions that might come up.


Cheers!

- Mike

 

[Don Gwinn]

Until I read this thread, I'd never seen the Darrel Ralph kits (or heard of them, actually.) Those things are on an entirely different plane from the Kits I had in mind. I can see how, with one of those, a man would be able to build something much better than he can make from scratch.

There's one in the Gallery Forum at http://www.bladeforums.com right now that illustrates the point. Just beautiful. Now, it was made by a guy who's pretty good at embellishing knives, but still--he probably couldn't have made the actual knife himself, and then the gift of his engraving and filework would not be displayed. He claims to have put in 60 hours on it.

That's what I was talking about. That guyis honest and he respects the craft. No real master would have a problem with him, I would think. Hell, they're pretty patient with guys like me who would like to work from scratch but mostly burn and distort steel.

 

[Evil_Ed]

Hey Don,

Don't let dorks like that get to you. As long as you're honest about how much of the work was your own, there's nothing wrong with using a kit. Personally, I find that they really aren't that much less work than "making your own," but remember everybody's got a different idea of what that means.

There are definately a few makers that have the "My way is best and everyone else sucks" attitude but I have to agree that the higher up the skill/quality food chain you get the more easygoing and less judgemental the makers get. I've discussed knives with Al Pendray quite a few times at various shows here in Florida and he is one of the most easygoing guys that I have ever met. I count myself lucky everytime I get to talk with him and will save up the "good" questions for him to see what new knowledge I can get out of him. Al's not one to just pass it out to you, he makes you figure most of it out yourself so you remember it!

How long have you been making blades?

 

[Evil_Ed]

BTW, as to making stuff I fall into the forge it myself variety mostly although I do occasionally make something using stock removal methods. I just enjoy the forging process more than just hogging it out on a grinder.

I must say that forging (properly done) will produce a great knife that is more durable than the stock removal process. However, the learning curve to hit the right temperature ranges while forging at doing it in the appropriate amount of time to minimize carbon loss is a much larger curve so in the beginning stock removal will be much more consistent for blade quality. It has to do with the crystalline structure of the metal and how the grains get moved around by the forging process.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Forging is a little harder to learn (don't I know; I haven't learned it yet!) but its' also cheaper and simpler. I think it makes more sense for most beginners. You can build your own forge and anvil a lot more easily than a grinder and a heat-treat oven! It's a lot easier to get a lot of practice at forging. Of course, it takes more practice, so it all evens out pretty well. A stock-removal guy can make a good knife, but he can't make it out of the free junk I use. It's hard to grind a good knife out of a coil spring.

I've been into it for a couple of years, but progress has been slow. I do it awhile, give it up before I become really proficient, and when I have time to do it again, I start over. Beats painting the house, though.

I'd love to have the chance to stand across a table from Al Pendray! Heck, I'd settle for standing there as he talked to someone else. I've learned a lot from Tai Goo and Tim Lively, which is probably part of the reason my tastes run toward unplugged projects. Those guys are infectious even if they are both crazy. Never met either one face to face.

 

[Evil_Ed]

Don,

I'd love to have the chance to stand across a table from Al Pendray! Heck, I'd settle for standing there as he talked to someone else. I've learned a lot from Tai Goo and Tim Lively, which is probably part of the reason my tastes run toward unplugged projects. Those guys are infectious even if they are both crazy. Never met either one face to face.

Yeah, Al is a real cool guy and has probably forgotten more about metal than I will ever know. I have been pretty lucky when it comes to learning about bladesmithing as I have a proffessional maker living about 5 minutes from my house! I met Ray Johnson II about 11 years ago and was able to weasel him into teaching me how to make knives both in stock removal and forgework processes. I now regularly make my own Damascus whenever I need a Damascus billet rather than buy the premade billets. I have made a few unplugged projects for arts & sciences competitions in the Society for Creative Anachronism and can sympathize with the amount of work that goes into that as well. You definately have to be a little bit crazy to work unplugged all the time! What is the hardest project you have undertaken so far? Do you prefer making a particular style of knife?

 

[Omega_7]

I do medieval re-enactment as a knight

And I make my own daggers, swords, war hammers, spears, shields and more.. here's one example, a Scottish Great dagger as would have been used in the William Wallace era, they were made from broken sword blades:

 

[Omega_7]

Here's a Norman/ Viking short battle axe

Such as would have been used by Robert the Bruce or similar:

 

[Omega_7]

Here I am from last Summer

As the Black Knight

PS, the Scottish War sword was purchased. I was in a hurry with no time to make one.

 

[Evil_Ed]

Omega-7

And I make my own daggers, swords, war hammers, spears, shields and more.. here's one example, a Scottish Great dagger as would have been used in the William Wallace era, they were made from broken sword blades:

Nice work, I especially like the Scottish dirk. I'll dig up som picks of a few of my pieces and post them this weekend. I did a pattern-welded parrying dagger (roughly 15th century) with upswept quillions a while back that I am fairly proud of as well as a reproduction of a belt knife from the "Knives & Scabbards" book.

 

[Omega_7]

I used a magnetic donut for the ring hilt

It gave the piece a Dal Riata look. The Dal Riata were my ancestors who invaded western Scotland, and in fact are why it is now called that, since they were the "Scotti". My ancestors were the royal line of Scotland, crowned on the stone of Scone, until the Wallace era. But that's another story

Here's a pic of me doing middle earth re-enactment as a ranger in 2002. It's great fun

 

[Omega_7]

I would love to get good enough to

Make pattern welded Viking swords, they had a Pattern weld- herring bone center with "welded on" hard steel edges. I do not know of anyone that makes them today, I am sure it is a lost art that is slowly being re-discovered. I have an extensive library detailing those that have been unearthed. And quite a few other military and history books. they will be displayed in my new remodeled dojo. I also am a practicioner and instructor in Jeet Kune Do, the art of the late Bruce Lee. Hence the personal dojo.
Most of my work is "unplugged" Especially my carving work. The great dagger handle was hand worked from a piece of 90 year old plum tree heart. The axe handle was red ebony, and if you look carefully the short sword I am wearing in each picture has a rondel spiral black gaboon ebony carved handle. I like to experience what my ancestors did as they made these weapons. I use files, carving tools, hand drills and such. It was something most knights engaged in as a hobby and to finish blades bought from overseas (Usually Germany, as the English forbade forges in Scotland and the art was nearly lost there)

Look forward to seeing what you have made !

 

[Evil_Ed]

I would love to get good enough to make pattern welded Viking swords, they had a Pattern weld- herring bone center with "welded on" hard steel edges.

Once you have the welding down the patterning isn't too hard being mostly a way of manipulating the strips into the look you want. If you are uncertain of what the pattern will look like when you are done you can take bars of wax or sculpy and hook them together and try your twists/cuts on them first to see what pattern different manipulations will get you. As to the Forge Welding process to bind the metal together, Al Pendray told me that there are only TWO reasons a weld doesn't turn out right... 1) The metal was too dirty. or 2) the metal wasn't hot enough. So completely clean your surfaces to be welded before dropping them into the forge (and make certain you have either a gas furnace or clean charcoal if you use a coal forge) and bring it up to a white heat when it comes time to get the weld. Everything else comes down to fine tuning your technique.

I do not know of anyone that makes them today, I am sure it is a lost art that is slowly being re-discovered.

I've made/helped make a couple of Seax blades and a few sword bladed daggers with the herringbone style twists but haven't taken the time to attempt a full length sword as it is an involved process that I want to be able to devote serious time to complete. The Viking Age has always been my favorite period in history! One of the big name makers has made a viking sword with the herringbone damascus pattern, I'll dig up the article and scan it in for you (it's in an old issue of the Blade yearly knife book).

I have an extensive library detailing those that have been unearthed. And quite a few other military and history books.

I have a decent Medieval library as well, maybe we should compare book information or some sort of title/ISBN list so we can fill the gaps we have in our respective collections. It is a pain trying to find some of these books because of the lack of interest by the general public. One I recently found and ordered from Amazon is Swords of the Viking Age by Ian Peirce (Author) and Ewart Oakeshott (Author introduction).

I also am a practicioner and instructor in Jeet Kune Do, the art of the late Bruce Lee. Hence the personal dojo.

Cool! I have always wanted to study Jeet Kune Do, it seemed like a very practical martial art. I have studied a little chinese style and took some courses in what is loosely title Ninjitsu but with the teacher I had (ex-Green Beanie) turned out to be a little bit of everything that works...we learned some Jiu Jitsu, Akido, and Tai Chi manuevers plus some really nice leverage throws and a bit of "dirty" fighting.

 

[Omega_7]

I would love to see that pattern welded sword!

I have a British author's book where the writer claimed to have made one and gave instructions.. but it was only drawings, no photos.

My book collection is packed away in boxes right now due to the remodeling going on downstairs. (I also just built a custom all tile bathroom for my babe, with a giant jetted jaccuzzi tub, so my stock is rising around here ) {I was a master tile setter before I got into computers and internet retail sales}

Anyway, I do have some JKD books out, and here are the best two to get started on.
"Expressing the human body" [The training methods and workout theories of Bruce Lee, compiled and edited by John Little with the approval of Bruce's widow, Linda Lee Cadwell] Tuttle publishing ISBN0-8048-3129-7

"Tao of Jeet Kune Do" By Bruce Lee This one is concepts and random thoughts by Bruce on combativeness and the science of JKD
Ohara publications, ISBN 0-89750-048-2

Also, highly recommended: Paul Vunak's video tapes. Paul is the perhaps the premier JKD instructor alive today, along with his sifu Dan Inosanto [Dan starred in Bruce's last movie, and he taught Bruce the Philipino martial arts as well as nunchaku] I highly recommend all of Paul's tapes, but the ones that will show you a few ways that JKD is used in the real world are his "Anatomy of a street fight" tapes. Tom Cruse is also an awesome associate instructor with Vunak, and his specialty is one of my favorites, KALI.. stick/knife/sword/improvised weapons fighting
He has a deal on his site of you buy a certain number of tapes..
http://www.pfsvideo.com/

 

[Charles S]

Great thread with a lot of good info.


Charles

 

[JShirley]

Omega,

Welcome to THR. Nice axe.

John

 

[4v50 Gary]

Conner Prairie has a class where you'll learn how to hand forge your own tomahawk and knife. http://www.connerprairie.org Go to the calendar for Oct. and you'll find the arms making workshop. It's listed there. BTW, I was going to take it this year, but was convinced to take engraving instead. So, instead of a 20 plus oz hammer (Bam! Bam! Bam!) it's a 1 oz "tink, tink, tink."