Anybody have a trade gun?

[4v50 Gary]

I want to sculpt a beavertail or finial on the stock where the shadowline of the lock is. Am I correct in thinking that the wrist tapers down with the beavertail? If you have one, please post a picture at a 3/4 angle view of the beavertail. Thanks.

 

[Coyote3855]

We have several original NE Trade guns at our museum. I'm not familiar with your terms. Can you post picture of the area you want to see? I will try to oblige. I'm not at the museum. I seem to remember a pointed bulb finial in a couple of areas.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Check the carving behind the lock. It is shaped like a beavertail or thumb rest.

 

[Lefty38-55]

Yes, the carving follows the taper of the wrist. But also beware that the photo above by Eric Bye - is not identified for what it is - and purely by architecture of the trigger guard and trigger ... as well as engraving on the lock itself ... I don't believe THAT to be a 'Trade Gun'. Trade Guns, less French, had bow/rounded trigger guards.

FYI, from Rob Miller, a noted builder of Trade Guns, emphasis added by me:

"The NW trade gun made and developed by the Hudson's Bay Co. was a very early gun. It probably was not seen in great numbers until the HBCo moved south into Old French territory after the F&I War, but even with a cast side plate the gun can still be early. The first year for cast serpent side plates was 1749. The earliest Known N.W. still in existence is an example made in 1751. The very large bow trigger guard is a post-1780 characteristic, not 1740 as uninformed folks like to tout ... See T.M. Hamilton for info. So ... an early N.W. Trade Gun will look a bit different than say a 1830 N.W. Trade Gun, by having a bit thinner profile, heel of buttplate is rounded, carving always present at tang and mortices, smaller bowed trigger guard, non-bridled frizzen, tombstone fox stamp on lock ... see if I can post a replica I made of an early example for my buddy."

Here's some pictures he's posted to follow, 2nd photo of a different fire lock. BTW, Rob has a Facebook page of 'Miller Muzzleloaders", but NOTHING is for sale there - please don't even ask - due to FB's policies. You can reach him on FB Messenger or he hangs out The MZL'ing Forums (if I'm allowed to say so).





If you haven't yet seen the 48" barreled 62-cal Carolina trade gun that Rob made for me - that only weighs 6-pounds - see the link, she's a one-ragged-hole shooter offhand @ 25-yards, so schweet!

This ‘Rob Miller’ Carolina Trade Gun is a shooter!

Well, if you haven’t heard of Rob Miller (posts on FaceBook under his name, or as ‘Rob M.’ on dedicated MZLding Forums) … and if you are into Trade Guns - you will hear of him. You will find that he is a very accomplished, yet maybe a tad too humble, builder of excellent trade guns, and does it...

www.thehighroad.org

 

[4v50 Gary]

Thanks. Eric's book was used only as a reference for the beavertail. Also thank you for confirming that the decorative tail follows the contour of the wrist.

Last week I was at a private collection but didn't bother to examine a Trade Gun. Oh well.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Charles Hanson calls them "ornamental tear drops" in the chapter he wrote for The Book of the Buckskinner, Vol. 1.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I decided that while the teardrop is OK, the wrist is too fat and it needs to be slimmed down. Going to hit it with a file manana and reduce the thickness.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

I got in a lefty Caywood NW Trade Gun last week. I haven't shot it yet but here are some pictures which will hopefully be useful.

 

[Lefty38-55]

Nice Dave and the lock is on the right side ... for us!

 

[4v50 Gary]

Looking at Dave's top view (first photo), I decided to slim the wrist further and then redo the thumb rests/teardrops.

Lefty38-55: I'm lefthanded too and I decided that if I ever sell my stuff, a right handed firelock would sell faster. Can you please post a picture of the stock near the muzzle? Mine's a bit short but I'm thinking of the ramrod end for a 20 gauge tip and that won't fit on a tradition full stock to muzzle gun. Of course I can fit it with a piece of horn to decorate the gun and restore the full length.

 

[Lefty38-55]

Typically the ramrod tips were bulbous and not like the straight profile we all too often see on modern replica ramrods. Like this French one shown below started out with a ~5/8" hickory blank (from the late Dan Putz) that was turned via a Mike Lea tapering tool to be 3/8" for most of its length, tapering again to 5/16" for the entry portion over a good 8".

Also note that there is historical precedence - on early arms - where the forestock was cut back so one could mount a socket bayonet.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Thanks Lefty. I've seen some original Trade Guns and they had tapered ramrods. That's for the nose pics. I noticed both of yours have a brazed/soldered front sight blade. I read than in Hanson's book too.

Presently I'm scraping the file marks off the stock. I have a Mike Lea tool too. Did you know his married daughter is somewhere in Europe and is fluent in numerous languages? I met them at Friendship and she was still a kid then. He told me that about two years (or mebbe three) ago.