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Anybody willing to let someone shoot at them?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by spin180, Jan 6, 2003.

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  1. spin180

    spin180 Member

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    I was watching Fox Magazine (on the FNC), which was showing some of the more popular stories that aired over the last year. One of the first that was shown was a bit about defense, awareness, etc. in the wake of the Sept. 11th attacks (a related article can be found here: FNC Article .

    In this piece, Fox reporter Rick Leventhal visited Crucible Security Specialists to learn about such matters. To the credit of the folks at Crucible Security Specialists, the tactics and ideas they presented were very good. However, one thing they did left me conwildered and befused. :confused:

    To wit, the incident in particular involved the FNC reporter, the CEO of Crucible Security, and two other unidentified chaps sitting at one end of a rather large, open area outdoors. They were seated a few feet away from a dirt embankment, with a target stand directly behind them. The stand rose above them about 4-5 feet and attached to it was one of those plastic/foam human-like target torsos. It was dressed so as to simulate the upper-half of an individual. With the four fellows seated, a sniper and scout, as described by the report, proceeded 'up-range' into a treeline and took up position. Upon the word of the CEO, the sniper fired four rounds at the target, and consequently at the men seated underneath it. From what I could tell, the target was struck twice and there were two misses, from a stated distance of 230 yards.

    I could not determine what this had to do with the the rest of the report, as the other parts all dealt with actual self-defense techniques involving hand-to-hand fighting, firearms tactic, and the like. During the "sniping" exhibition, the CEO prodded the reporter to determine the location of the shooter, but that was all that was really spoken about.

    That not-withstanding though, how incredibly stupid was this? I'm really aghast that anyone would try a stunt like that, no matter how good the shooter is.

    Perhaps someone else saw the show and can clue me in as to something I missed. I understand this report originally aired before the D.C., VA, MD shootings, so it was not a tie-in to that incident.

    I guess I'm really dumbfounded by stupidity. :scrutiny:
     
  2. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

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    It's called a confidence drill. I think it's more than just a little bit on the crazy side, but to each his own, right? The thing that I find amusing is the two misses part. 230 yards isn't very far for a well-trained marksman with a high-grade rifle and scope, particularly on a human-size target. Maybe it was just really windy.
     
  3. sanchezero

    sanchezero Member

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    Yeah, misses at 230???

    :eek:

    I wouldn't let that guy build my confidence.
     
  4. telewinz

    telewinz Member

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    I will be issued a "bullet resistant" vest at work soon. My son is still negotiating with me as to what caliber I'll let him shoot me with to test the vest. He said he loved me when he left for college yesterday, he was smiling when he said it but I still believe him.:D
     
  5. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Nope.

    Why take unnecessary risks during training? Did the guys sitting there effect the ability of the shooter to hit the target?

    Just a staged stunt done for the benefit of the camera.
     
  6. Kahr carrier

    Kahr carrier Member

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    No way Jose .:neener:
     
  7. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    Willing to let someone shoot at me ? ? ? ? ? ?

    Not in ALL of our combined lifetimes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2003
  8. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    Did you know that live people sit as hostages when some of the real Jedi (SAS, FBI HRT, Delta, etc.) do their clearing drills?

    Sitting still while some sniper 200+ yards away pops a target five feet away from you is one thing, sitting in a room while a bunch of door-kickers come in with submachineguns and hose targets all around you comlpetely redefines the word "trust" as far as I'm concerned.:eek:
     
  9. concerned citizen

    concerned citizen Member

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    No thanks..:scrutiny:
     
  10. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    There are a couple of instructors who have one student stand beside the target while the other student shoots it. It's supposed to make the shooter realize the importance of precision and concentration while the "shootee" learns to deal with having a weapon fired in his direction.

    One such instructor is in TN. My brother-in-law and I took one of his courses and then ran when we heard the description of the other course.
     
  11. Jesse H

    Jesse H Member

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    EEEKS. I read something very similar to that in Clancy's "Rainbow Six" but figured it was highly fictional considering the risks.
     
  12. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    Nope. Not fictional. If you watch some of the documentaries, you can see SEALs and HRT doing exactly this: live fire exercises with live "hostages" to be recovered. A valuable training technique to be sure but I don't think I could do it without losing control of various bodily functions.
     
  13. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm not sure which would be more stressful...being the guy acting as hostage, or the guy going through the door and hosing targets around his drinking buddies.

    :what:

    Mike
     
  14. Blackhawk

    Blackhawk Member In Memoriam

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    Yes.

    Well, I was.

    They did too, and they weren't trying to miss. They were trying to knock me out of the sky. It was a war.

    Being willing to be shot at was a job requirement.

    For the Army and Marines, it still is.

    Winston Churchill's comment about his experiences in the Boer war are true: "There's nothing as exilhirating as being shot at with no ill effect." (Maybe pax has the exact quote.)
     
  15. ahenry

    ahenry Member

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    Always kinda wanted to see how I’d react. Never had the option, so its always been an academic question. To really answer though, I suppose I would if it was somebody I knew doing the shooting. Guess that makes me sorta nuts. Then again, I think people that handle snakes are nuts...
     
  16. El Rojo

    El Rojo Member

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    I don't remember the two misses. I remember him having a couple head shots, and then his body shots weren't really center of mass, but they were on target. And the people were more than five feet away, not much farther, but not quite that close. I didn't think it was that big of a deal. 230 yards is easy enough to send bullets into a 6" circle with great consistency.

    Other than the huge berm of earth and wood between you, that drill and pulling targets at a highpower match isn't all that different.
     
  17. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    Like Blackhawk says, in a war it's part of the job, but in training? Only if I get to shoot back...at close range. Whose confidence is this supposed to building, anyway? :confused:
     
  18. cola8d8

    cola8d8 Member

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    misses

    I dont think there were 2 misses, I know one hit the pumpkin (in addition to the 2 on the target) next to them. Im sure this was to show the damage being done to the pumpkin, for what thats worth. I dont remember about the 4th.
     
  19. Frohickey

    Frohickey Member

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    Sure.

    Me in a buttoned-up M1A2 Main Battle Tank.
    The guy shooting at me with a 22short.
     
  20. HS/LD

    HS/LD Member

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    Been there done that actually have the t-shirt. :D


    I have been shot at.
    Once by somone I "let " shoot me.
    He shot me in the chest with a BHP.
    Didn't even hurt.
    9mm wimp bullets :D

    We used to shoot in the general direction of other troops quite often. Especially fun shooting at the mechanics. They would stage a hostile situation breakdown and get to work repairing the vehicle. We would shoot their equipment :D

    Regards,
    HS/LD


    Disclaimer: Don't try any of this at home ever. We were high most of the time and drunk the rest.... (just kidding ) :D
     
  21. MLH

    MLH Member

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    :what: Are you crazy? That's why I carry a CCW because I DON'T want anyone shooting at me!:rolleyes:
     
  22. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    Jesse H,

    The HRT has a stunt they occasionally put on for visiting VIP's. They put you in a room, interspersed amongst "hostile" targets. Then they turn the lights out. In the darkness, you hear the door slam open, shuffling boots and *phut-clack-phut* noises, and feel the air disturbed around you.

    When the lights come back on, all the targets have holes in them, and you have a Post-It note on your back that says "You have just been rescued by the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team". :eek:

    All these units have a rule that says you sit as a hostage as often as you shoot. George Bush Sr. nearly caused his Secret Service guards to have a heart attack when, while he was Vice President, he wanted to sit as a hostage for a Delta Force clearing drill. Much to the amusement of the Delta operators, the Secret Service agreed only if Bush would wear a bulletproof vest and sit behind a lexan shield. The British royal family sits as hostages for the SAS once a year, too. IIRC, Di got her 'do singed by powder burns one time.
     
  23. 50 Shooter

    50 Shooter member

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    I've stood 20ft away from a 1K target calling shots for the guys I shoot .50's with. Of course they weren't shooting while I was calling them but while standing out there I did notice that even at 1K yards, the sonic crack of a .50 round is loud!

    We have upgraded though, we now use a video camera and a IR link to watch where the rounds impact.
     
  24. HS/LD

    HS/LD Member

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    That is true about the sitting/shooting rule.

    I remember being in the kill house one time and being scared sh*tless when a trooper from Britain (that I had had no experience with) button holed a door in the dark.
    I had NVG on and was sitting in a chair in front of the BG target.

    It looked to me like he pointed the MP5 RIGHT AT MY HEAD.:what:
    I think a screamed (like a girl) three times longer than the burst lasted. :)

    No singed hair but I had another mark on my clothes :D

    Regards,
    HS/LD
     
  25. cordex

    cordex Member

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    I've heard of this before. It sounds ... interesting.

    Look, I know a lot of people here might have the intestinal fortitude to sit still while people are blasting around you in the dark, and if you were in such a situation you'd be just fine. As for me, even knowing full well that the operators were UberShooters, I'd attempt to make myself very scarce as soon as I heard people throwing lead, which would likely lead to my being perforated.

    Still, it'd definitely be an experience.
     
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