Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by troy fairweather, Jun 13, 2021.
I think other is still different from firearm.
I am already confused, and have nothing useful to add besides "go gettem!"
In NY or in the eyes of the ATF, have a link?
Varminter basically explained it best, these are pretty much a pistol ar but with a forgrip and are over 26" so it's a other .
I've just read there's firearm and there is other or other firearm.
Yeah i got the basic build parameters....its just how the rules are viewed and applied that spins my head.....
Some one somewhere is writing rules that basically, but in a very convoluted way say "DONT!"
Then other folks are basically, but in a very convoluted way saying "BITE ME!" (not the choice of words is usually use)
Fun to watch from the outside.....just hard to understand all the comings and goings....
Did find this though.
And this, you most certainly wouldn’t want to sling it under a coat.
From what I've hurd these are different from a aow how I'm not sure. The few shops I've talked to said a lot of police are buying/building these "other" guns. When I build one I'll print off the atf definition to keep on the gun.
You can build it as a rifle then switch to a pistol, or a pistol and switch to a rifle as many times as you desire.
If you ever sold it, it would be sold as whatever configuration you sell it in.
That might be the case with certain state laws.
Yes as stated, a pistol can have any length barrel per federal law. As always, check your state laws first.
The 26" OAL comes into effect when determining if it is a rifle or classified as "other" or "firearm". To meet the federal definition of a rifle. it must have a barrel at least 16" OA: AND the Over all length of the rifle MUST be over 26". And yes I have seen "other" and "firearm" used interchangeably. AOW refers to Any Other Weapon which is a different class of NFA on its own.
With the classification of "other" or "firearm" it can have a barrel shorter than 16" OAL or 18" OAL for shotguns, but the OAL MUST be over 26". That is how shotguns such as the Mossberg Shockwave and Remington Tac14 are legal and also how AR's with no stock and a vertical fore grip are legal, they have an OAL over 26". They con not have a shoulder stock attached though since the barrels are shorter than 16" or 18" for shotguns.
Also correct that stripped receivers or even complete lowers by themselves should always transfer as "other" on the 4473. An AR does not become a pistol, rifle or other until a barreled upper is attached.
IF the AR is first built as a rifle then it absolutely must remain a rifle. If it is built as a pistol first then it is legal to change it to a rifle and then back to a pistol as long as it is always in a legal form. The Thompson Center case clarifies all of this.
It’s not - “other” isn’t a thing anywhere except a 4473. Neither the NFA or ATF have an “other” classification. ATF and the NFA both have “Firearm” classifications.
See the bottom line of page 2 from the determination letter provided above - a firearm not designed to be fired by the use of a single hand, having an overall length exceeding 26”, and is not actually concealed on one’s person (AND not having a buttstock, which would then define it as a rifle), is defined as a “Firearm”.
Sixfivearms have the 12" 6 arc barrels I'm thinking of going with that, I think it was you that posted velocity numbers for a short barrel 6 arc. Believe the numbers weren't to bad. For a buffer tube I'll probably just use a mili spec carbine tube.
For practical use a 12" barrel would be great, and you will easily be over 26" OAL. I want a 12" 6mm ARC!
100% correct on the terminology . But the term "other" gets used so much that the term has stuck. I'm sure that people are getting the term "other" from the 4473. I used both terms in my last post since there is confusion.
Now on barrel lengths. I have found that a 10.5" barrel and a standard pistol buffer tube will NOT get you to the magical 26" OAL, it will be just under that. Remember, AR barrels are measured from the bolt face to the end of the barrel unless the muzzle device is permanently attached (pinned and welded). Also any fold adaptor on a pistol or "firearm" is measured in the folded position. That is part of what got Franklin Armory in trouble.
Another thing to remember, with any gun classified as a "firearm", it instantly becomes an AOW if you conceal it. An AR "firearm" is a little hard to conceal under a coat compared to a Shockwave or Tac13.
Nice, but unfortunately it looks like it "goes all the way to 11" on the proposed ATF worksheet.
Not that I am aware of.
And you have to remember that as of right now, The ATF considers any brace with a length of pull over 13 1/2" as a shoulder stock.
The easiest way to make a "firearm" is to use a standard pistol buffer tube and a barrel at least 11.5" in length to get over 26" OAL.
For me, there’s no value in a “Firearm” denomination. I’m glad to keep AR pistols and SBR-15’s around, but I’ve never been 1) so enthralled with a vertical foregrip nor 2) so insistent on thumbing my nose at “the man” to ever truly care about purposefully building a “Firearm.”
But then again, I live in a state where I can own a pistol, rifle, or SBR, and I can walk into a shop and buy anything I want, cash and carry, without even a NICS check, as facilitated by my CCHL...
I can see the allure of building and AR into a "firearm" in states that allow it but do not allow AR rifles or AR pistols.
some county's over look the hole "safe act" all together and say it's Unconstitutional
Separate names with a comma.