Anyone Ever Carried An Unproven Gun?

[huntsman]

No and I don't remember ever having a new gun for more than a day before firing it.

 

[herrwalther]

I have carried a loaded firearm without having fired it first. Normally when I carry a firearm I have not fired, it is only for a few days. A week at most. Most of the time I carry a firearm with a loaded magazine but empty chamber, just in case. Carried with a loaded magazine to get a real world feel for weight and balance.

 

[GBExpat]

Anyone Ever Carried An Unfired Gun?

Not that I can recall ... but that may have happened once or twice since I started carrying.

 

[mikestone967]

Yes.

Yes, I have.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

I learned my lesson when I was hired to build a bridge in Africa. These lions were decimating our crews and I was tasked with hunting them. I borrowed a rifle from Dr Hawthorne and the thing misfired while the lion was in the thicket. The lion almost killed me and Charles Remington. Remington was at me!

Oh wait, that was Ghost in the Darkness. (Check it out if you haven't, it's a good movie!)

Nope, personally I have not.

 

[azrocks]

If it fires a full magazine without a problem, it's "proven"

Setting some arbitrary number is pointless because it won't guarantee the next round won't jam.

I think I'd call it good after a box. You're right about setting an arbitrary number. One could even say that with every round fired you're that much closer to an eventual failure of some sort.

So what do you do if it encounters a malfunction in that 1st mag or box? Sell it for cheap?

It's not uncommon for certain firearms to have a break-in period where you can expect a couple snags, which then go on to run like sewing machines.

Likewise, shooting a magazine or a box through a handgun doesn't provide a statistically relevant sampling. You pretty much know nothing about a handgun's reliability after one box of ammo, much less one magazine. Especially when it's likely some target load with FMJs.

Do what you want, but calling a gun 'good' after a box of ammo or less isn't any wiser than calling it a lemon just because it balks on the first mag.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I'm a little amazed that this got so many replies, but that's great. I'm also surprised that there are some who have carried, or think it not unreasonable to carry an unfired gun. But again, that's the kind of input I was looking for.

While the argument for carrying something rather than nothing is worthwhile, the other issue I have with carrying an unfired gun (aside from reliability) is one of being somewhat familiar/comfortable with the gun.

There may be some out there that have been shooting for so long they can claim to shoot a flea off a dog at a 100yrds with any pistol, even one they have never fired before. But that ain't me.

I want at least an afternoon to put a couple hundred rounds through it myself, not only to check for issues with the gun but also get some seat time with it.

 

[Warp]

So what do you do if it encounters a malfunction in that 1st mag or box? Sell it for cheap?

Diagnose the problem and submit it to additional evaluation.

My current primary daily carry pistol had a malfunction in the first 150 rounds, before I had started carrying it. I certainly have no issues carrying it now, and haven't for awhile, as that malfunction is the only one of any kind it has had with a current tally of 3,190 rounds

 

[Snyper]

So what do you do if it encounters a malfunction in that 1st mag or box? Sell it for cheap?

It's not uncommon for certain firearms to have a break-in period where you can expect a couple snags, which then go on to run like sewing machines.

Likewise, shooting a magazine or a box through a handgun doesn't provide a statistically relevant sampling. You pretty much know nothing about a handgun's reliability after one box of ammo, much less one magazine. Especially when it's likely some target load with FMJs.

Do what you want, but calling a gun 'good' after a box of ammo or less isn't any wiser than calling it a lemon just because it balks on the first mag.

First, you diagnose the problem.
It could be a magazine, or it could be just the ammo itself.
Then proceed from there.

Shooting 100, 500, 1000, etc still won't gaurantee the next round won't jam, so what's the point of some random number?

It would be idiotic to test your carry gun with "target ammo", so I will just ignore that part.

 

[Walkalong]

I've never carried anything I haven't had experience with, which means I have shot it a fair amount, do well/feel comfortable with it, and consider it dependable.

I'm also surprised that there are some who have carried, or think it not unreasonable to carry an unfired gun.

Me too.

 

[Shimitup]

I have never had to carry something untested, however if I had no choice but to carry that one pistol or nothing I absolutely would carry it. I would also make it a high priority to give it a good work out.

 

[JohnBiltz]

So let me get this straight, you are locked in an arena and four hungry wolves are let in, on a table is a Glock in its box and 3 loaded magazines.

So people are saying don't pick up the gun, load it and use it because it might not work.

 

[Tirod]

There is assessment of risk, and for some carrying an unproven gun in more risky than carrying a proven gun. I have no argument with them over that.

However, if you assess that there IS a risk, and choose to have a gun, then do we not repeatedly hear "it's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it?"

Goes to the low crime in suburban neighborhoods. I and millions of others don't see the need to be armed mowing our yards, going to the grocery store, or filling up our cars because we conduct our activities in areas where the rate of muggings, armed robbery, and driveby shootings are rare. There is in our assessment "no crime" and that is the exact reason why we choose to live where we do.

In reality our assessment may gloss over the midnight theft of drugs from the local pharmacy, or someone's feral children going thru our cars for change or stealing our gas cans, which we now lock up. Our assessment is to count those incidents as the normal background noise of life - because they are NON LETHAL threats. No gun is needed or wanted in those situations, even by the perpetrators as is often the case.

And it's often mentioned that many conceal carry their first time in a large retail discount store - but I would be less worried about serious crime there even after 10:30 in my suburban neighborhood. Some does happen - the local store near where I work had numerous cops chasing down a shop lifter recently. He was unarmed and no shots were fired. Had I been in close proximity and pulled my gun things might have gone badly for me. No gun was needed.

MOST of us are rarely confronted with the need to use lethal force. Some of us seem to be prone to pulling it out, which constitutes a lot of the 2-3 million instances where it did happen. But - that is 2-3 million out of 125 million adults in America. Do the math - and then consider where the crime clusters exist. Not in suburbia, that's for sure.

Inside the crime clusters, tho, would you buy a new gun and not use it from day one, especially if its the only one you had? You did assess a risk, do you then ignore that assessment and go out unarmed? Why did you buy the gun to leave it at home - because you don't have the time to travel across town to shoot it at a range to "prove" it?

What is your assessment of the overall risk? I'm worried a lot less about a malfunction of a dynamically operating machine in a low risk environment, and worried about the higher risk of needing it for at least one shot inside a crime cluster neighborhood. I'm also worried about raising a bar that would make people think they have to jump thru hoops and not carry when they already made the decision to carry.

I'm not recommending that you don't go out and shoot the gun to find out if you can, but I maintain that doing so shouldn't be relied on as a measure of how dependable it is. Again, thinking a gun is dead solid guaranteed to go bang every time you pull the trigger is a false assumption. If anything the more you carry it the more likely overconfidence in that ability will get you in trouble.

I choose to carry a new gun with less than 50 rounds thru it, but I understand that it can and will malfunction regardless of the number of rounds thru it. I just prefer to have one and not need it than need one and not have it. My lifestyle is low risk and I intend to keep it that way. Currently the odds of an armed encounter are once in a lifetime - I'll deal with it my own way based on my assessment of risk.

Better a new handgun never fired than no handgun at all when you need it.

 

[entropy]

I think I'd call it good after a box. You're right about setting an arbitrary number. One could even say that with every round fired you're that much closer to an eventual failure of some sort.

With that kind of logic, it would make sense to carry an unfired gun. However, that is faulty logic.

As for putting a 'box' through it and calling it good; maybe if it's a bulk box. I like to fire several hundred of a 'control' ammo (230 FMJ as an example, in the case of .45ACP; it gives an indication of general functioning) plus 50-100 of the carry round (several boxes, since most SD rounds come in 20 or 25 rd. boxes) before I'm satisfied. Any 'specialty' rounds I relegate to the bottom of the mag. (I occasionally put Glasers as the bottom round in a mag.) Test firing of those is very few, due to availability and cost.

Better a new handgun never fired than no handgun at all when you need it.

Well and succinctly put, Tirod. Glad I don't have to, and hope I never do.

 

[justice06rr]

If it fires a full magazine without a problem, it's "proven"

Setting some arbitrary number is pointless because it won't guarantee the next round won't jam.

Agreed.

It may not always be the gun either. Ammo and mags, even the user can induce errors, whether the gun is a Glock or AK, revolver or semi.

Fire enough rounds into the firearm until you are comfortable to carry it. It can be 2mags or 200rds.

 

[HoosierQ]

I carried a LCP in Florida without ever having fired a shot. It was my "shorts gun"...my "beach gun". The one time I was forced by circumstances into a dicey part of town I carried 1991 G17.

No one ever looked crosseyed at me the whole time, dicey part of town or not.

I have fired the LCP with the same ammo I was carrying and it never failed.

It is not something I'd repeat if I could avoid it.

 

[Warp]

Agreed.

It may not always be the gun either. Ammo and mags, even the user can induce errors, whether the gun is a Glock or AK, revolver or semi.

Fire enough rounds into the firearm until you are comfortable to carry it. It can be 2mags or 200rds.

You'll probably change your mind on this as you gain experience. I mean, hopefully you don't, because it means gaining experience with firearms that are less than perfect, but if you try enough of them, it will happen.

One magazine is pretty low sample size that probably isn't representative.

 

[azrocks]

First, you diagnose the problem.
It could be a magazine, or it could be just the ammo itself.
Then proceed from there.

Shooting 100, 500, 1000, etc still won't gaurantee the next round won't jam, so what's the point of some random number?

It would be idiotic to test your carry gun with "target ammo", so I will just ignore that part.

So let me get this straight...

It would be idiotic to test your carry gun with target ammo (which I agree with, of course), but it's 'smart' to call it good after a magazine's worth of self-defense ammo through it?

You might want to take a statistics class.

 

[jeepnik]

Oh my yes! Well, actually the model was proven, proven unreliable. But after mine failed I found an M14 and never looked back.

I wonder if anyone ever figured out how many GI's were wounded or killed when the POS M16 failed in combat. If they did, I'm sure the government would bury that info very, very deep.

 

[MICHAEL T]

How about all the people in America. That don't hang out on gun boards. Buy a new pistol and a box of ammo. Go home load up and put in night stand or drawer. Or get their Carry permit and load up . I bet over 1/2 the people never fire their pistols load and put up just in case or carry same way . Next are the people that go to a range and fire 50 rounds 2 or 3 times a year. Not every one .Even here on internet fires a 1000 rounds a month.

 

[Charlie Horse]

Yes, I will confess...

...but I was young and I know better now.

Honestly, if you had no other choice, I can see doing it, but not as a matter of course.

 

[EIB0879]

Nope.

 

[MedWheeler]

I've done it. I can think of two guns I did that with. One was, at the time, the "most-suitable" CC weapon and had just been acquired. I felt no need to go unarmed simply because the gun had never been fired (by me.) I'd rather point a gun not yet tested by me and pull the trigger at a threat than point only my finger and make the already-mentioned "pew-pew-pew" sounds.

The second time was I had just got a gun I really liked (a Bulgarian PM) and simply wanted to carry it.

But, yes, I feel much better once I've run a handful of magazines through an autoloading pistol, and a cylinder or two through a revolver if I'm carrying either.

 

[Reefinmike]

The last box of ammo I bought was a box of federal hydrashoks in 45 acp 3 or 4 years ago. $20 for 20 rounds. I figured If I was going to keep the 1911 as a bedside gun I should buy some factory stuff instead of reloads. I fired 11 of the rounds without failure and considered it good to go. stuffed one in the pipe, 8 in the mag and put it in the night stand for a while. A while back before selling my last 45, I shot off those last 9 rounds. One of them was a dud. brought it home, tore i down to find it had no priming compound. Last time I will ever rely on factory stuff. Now I will just buy a couple boxes of 100 xtp bullets per caliber. reload and shoot a hundred then save a hundred rounds for carry. This way I can actually afford to prove a load in a gun and have the highest quality control possible.

 

[RavenTai]

I have, my P3AT was impounded as evidence for 9 months, I carried it's replacement A PF9 for about a week before I could get to the range, first mag the Barrel pin sheared in half, Hopelessly locked up. it had to go back to the factory. And I was still un armed, replacement #2 a DB9 was purchased and then carried, about a week later it turned out to be just straight up unreliable, and sold. The final fix was replacement #3 a kahr CW9.

It was an expensive month.

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