Anyone have any experience with "Mexican matching" 7.62x54R for hunting loads?

Status
Not open for further replies.

primalmu

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
1,064
Location
Mooresville, NC
I'm looking to pick up a Mosin M44 with possible use for hunting. I plan to shoot mainly surplus ammo, but I was curious about the idea of "Mexican matching" by removing the FMJ bullet and using a bullet suitable for hunting.

Ideally I'd keep the powder and use a hunting bullet of equal or less weight. At about 20 cents/round for surplus it seems like I would be ahead doing this rather than investing in a bunch of reloadable brass if the ammo it produces is accurate enough.

Anyone have any experience?
 
Even using a bullet of equal weight but different profile can be iffy. If its lighter that's a def no go (accuracy will probably be crap and I'm sure it increase your chances for a squib). If you are going to put your own bullet in the case you might as well match the charge to the bullet otherwise you are just asking for trouble. Your hunting bullet for example might seat deeper and cause increased pressure. Granted Mosins can take some pretty nasty loads, but I still would not trust it, especially considering milsurp ammo for that can be all over the place on loads (at least thats what I've heard of old mosin ammo).

Keeping the primer is a totally different story (pretty sure they are berdan primed anywho so not like you have much choice unless you want to mod the cases).
 
What do you mean if its lighter that's definitely a no go? It is my understanding that with a given charge, using a lighter bullet will decrease pressure while a heavier one will increase, which is why all my reloading data shows heavier bullets on top of a smaller powder charge.
 
What do you mean if its lighter that's definitely a no go?
None of that is true.

People have been 'Mexican Matching' military ammo for many many years.

As long as the hunting bullet you use is the same weight or lighter, and is seated about the same length, there will be no safety issue.

7.65x54R is not loaded to bleeding edge pressure in the first place.
And the difference between a 150 or 180 FMJ, and a 150 or 180 soft-point hunting bullet is meaningless, as long as the bullet profile and seating depth are about the same.

The problem you might have is case neck tension if you pull .312" military bullets and try to replace them with .308" hunting bullets.

Be sure and get .311" or .312" hunting bullets.

Then Gofer It!
And good luck on the deer you kill!

rc
 
If it were me I'd get five of the surplus cartridges and pull the bullets. I'd pour the powder of all five into pan and weigh, divide by five to get the average charge weight. Put all five bullets into a pan and weigh, divide by five to get the average bullet weight.

It's very important to do averages. That helps to mitigate any errors that might originate with the original surplus loads. More than five is even better.

I'd get a hunting bullet of the same diameter and close in weight. If that hunting bullet was 10% HEAVIER than the surplus bullet I'd decrease the charge weight by 10%. If it was 10% LIGHTER than the surplus bullet I'd increase the charge weight by 10%. I'd adjust the formula accordingly based on the weight of the hunting bullet chosen.

That's what I'd do. And that's what I've done. If I had time I'd reduce my loads 5% and work up.
 
I have done it but weighed the original charge and bullets.

Then found a similar weight/charge load in a manual and compared what the charge would be with a heavier bullet and weighed out a new reduced charge for the heavier bullet and that worked just fine.
 
What do you mean if its lighter that's definitely a no go?
Usually keeping the military charge, a lighter bullet will not hit to the same point of impact as a bullet weighing the same as the military bullet. It is not that it is unsafe, but that you may have to test fire, note point of impact on target, and adjust aim accordingly.
 
Boy, this sounds like some much work, you might as well let your own and get much better results.
Norma brass, 7.62 x 53 R Midsouth shooters supply.
Sierra 150 grain .311 bullets work in most cheap nagants. Not necessarily in the finish ones.
Varget, 42 grains. I don't really remember the seating depth right off hand.
Lee classic loader, $26.
I've seen pretty significant differences in chamber size, hence I get the best results within neck sized case.
I've done extensive modifications to one of mine, achieved 1 -1 1/2 inch groups 100 yards, hit targets set up to 800 yards. Your mileage will vary.
$40 in NCStar scope, long Eye relief, 2-7X, dovetail rings on the dovetail underneath the rear site.
 
Groups from my hand loaded cases, almost always half or less the size of surplus ammo.

Saw one fella who forgot to clean his rifle, rusted the bore overnight after shooting corrosive ammo. Better be careful if you choose that stuff!
 
In the past, I pulled the bullets from 1960's Czech steel cased, light ball (147 grain) 7.62x54r and reloaded them with 150 grain soft points pulled from Norma 7.65 Argentine ammo.

You'll need to resize your case necks before you seat the new bullets, but if using steel cases it's even more important than brass because there's NO springback to the steel cases. I found that with the whole decapping/expander stem removed, I could run the cases all the way into the resizing die without using any lube or dumping the powder from the cases. I'd then bell the case necks slightly and seat a bullet without ever expanding the neck.

Depending on the source of the surplus ammo you're using, it might be beneficial to to weigh and average your powder charges. After checking the charge weights on a dozen of the S&B Czech loads, I found that they were consistent enough not to worry about it.

The resulting loads were actually more accurate than the factory loaded ball ammo, although OAL was a good bit shorter. I never noted any pressure signs, even though the bullets I loaded were 3 grains heavier than those I'd pulled, they were a good bit shorter (no steel core) and had about the same bearing area.

Although these loads worked well and killed several hogs for me, I gave up using them fairly quickly.

The last thing I wanted to do after killing a few hogs out of a sounder was to worry about cleaning my rifle when I had a bunch of pork to process. It wouldn't be so bad with an M44, but I was shooting a PSL and cleaning it was considerably more complicated and time consuming.

There's no way I would have done that if I'd been able to buy $13.75 a box hunting ammo or inexpensive Privi brass. Unfortunately, at that time all I could get was Norma ammo and cases and it was more than I could afford.

The above information is meant only as a guide, I'm NOT claiming that it was 100% safe or that you'll be able to run your cases into the die without lube or seat bullets without expanding the case necks, but it worked for me.
 
Don't waste your time!!! Go buy yourself 2 boxes of PRVI/PPU 150gr SP ammo. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/77...62x53mm-rimmed-150-grain-soft-point-box-of-20 Two boxes of that are cheaper than most of the other competitive brands of ammo. Test it out and if you don't like how it shoots (you'll probably love it) you'll have plenty of brass to work up new loads.

Now this just makes too much sense:D;)

I wonder what that nice couple on Life Below Zero who post on this forum use in their Mosin??
 
I have done a lot of experimenting with the M44 and 91/30 over the last 2 years. As the M44 goes I have replaced the 148 gr bullet in the surplus ammo with Sierra Match Kings and adjusted the factory charge. I found that adjusting the charge to about 45-46 grains gives pretty good results. The factory charge was around 49 grains. The best round I came up with are my own reloads with IMR4895 and Sierra Match Kings. I have Russian 180 grain surplus Match ammo from Wideners that is very good. They use a longer bullet. So far I haven't been able to find bullets as long. This shows me that it's not always the weight that matters but the length that's important.
For what it's worth I haven't seen any notable differences between the Russian and Bulgarian ammo. The bullets and powder charges appear to be the same.
I have also replaced the powder to the surplus ammo and that's just a waste of time IMHO.
Most of the commercial ammo uses .308 - .309 bullets. The Mosin prefers .310-.312 bullets.
 
PRVI x54R ammo has the "correct" .311 bullets and it shoots great out of all 4 Mosins I've put it through. I really don't see the point in Mexican Matching surplus ammo when PRVI is very reasonably priced and gives you good brass to reload.
 
I've used HotShot Serbian Ammo and Privi to good effect then reload the brass with Hornandy .311-.312 bullets with Varget. My rifles shoot both the reloads and modern factory ammo about the same far better than most surplus a difference of 4-6" groups down to 2-3" groups. I only have one Nagant that shoots 1.5-2" groups that is an ex PU rifle with a bedded action.
 
My apologies I didn't want to make it sound like lighter bullets would create safety issues. I was really more saying that it could give you major accuracy issues by not being a higher end charge since most calibers tend to give best accuracy on a warm to hot charge. Of course this isn't always the case. I'd rather have the piece of mind of loading the round for my rifle instead of hoping that these charges would be accurate only to be possibly disappointed. I really need to stop posting stuff in this forum when I'm tired ><
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top