Anyone know about swords?

[Jim NE]

I know nothing about swords. But I found some of those inexpensive ceremonial swords, and bought them for my two kids. They are ornate, but have no sharpened edge, and are intended primarily for decorative purposes.

Nevertheless, my kids are VERY excited to get them (they haven't arrived yet.) So my question is, if my kids decide to pursue swords to a higher level, what is the best way for them (or me) to learn about these weapons? And learn what to look for when moving up to a more functional sword?

My son is a teenager in martial arts, and recently earned a first degree black belt after a few years of training. He has trained with other non-edged weapons, so there is a possibility he might want to pursue swords in a more serious manner. He has at least demonstrated a commitment to this type of activity.

Are there good, well known books on the subject out there that you could recommend? I seem to find some knowledgeable people online, but I hate to use youtube as our prime information source. Thanks in advance.

 

[RaceM]

Talk to some folks that do "live steel" demonstrations or fighting. The Empire of Chivalry and Steel would be a good start.
I once made a fighting sword for one of these guys. Trust me, they really put 'em through the wringer. My blade lasted through over 300 fights, winning many of them, before the fella retired from the game.

 

[papaairbear]

Look at this site: http://myarmoury.com/home.php It's a forum similar to this one for swords and armor. The "Historical" section contains some quite in depth discussions and references by educated international scholars and historical researchers you may find interesting.

 

[Jim NE]

Wow! Thanks guys. Those are great references. Best wishes.

 

[hso]

First off, ceremonial swords are still dangerous. Impaling yourself or a friend is a real hazard. Because they're not sharp, but have a rudimentary point, lead to a false sense of safety making them more dangerous than legitimate practice swords with blunted tips. They are not toys. There are practice swords of polymer and wood out there that are far safer.

The best way to learn about swords is to train with them.

If your kids are interested in Asian swords then they can get the training they need to safely use them from a good martial arts school either Japanese, Chines or FMA based.

If they're interested in European swords they can get the training they need from organizations like thearma or a local version of KAB.

If the interest is just academic then sites like Swordforums are great.

 

[Jim NE]

Thanks HSO. The kids have been told these gifts are weapons - and they understand what this means - which is why I feel confident in letting them keeping them in their rooms...as display items only. My kids are 13 (twins, of course), and I was really excited that my daughter was as delighted to get one, as she hasn't been very interested in firearms.

Being allowed to own an actual weapon is, I feel, an important step for a responsible young person. It shows them that their parents regard them as a responsible adult, and that can have an enormous positive influence on young people. They're much less likely to jeopardize that trust with irresponsibility. My son also owns BB guns, but I keep possession of those.

I've also told them that, being ceremonial pieces, they not as strong as battle swords, so damage to the weapon is more likely with inappropriate use. That'll be a motivator, too.

Thanks for the references. Medieval European swords are their interest. We're going to Europe later this year, so the historical aspect is exciting, as well.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Since your son is already involved in martial arts, he might be interested in kendo. That was my P.E. credit in college - I still have my shinai around here somewhere.

 

[susieqz]

for training, find a local fencing club.
most teach intro classes, starting with epee n working up to saber.
fencers are always looking to bring new people in, so
you n your kids will get a warm welcome.

 

[sgt127]

I have a soft spot for Japanese swords. I studied ju-jujitsu, Iaido and Ken Jitsu many years. Simply "learning swordsmanship" opens so many radically different doors, it's tough to pick one.
If they are into martial arts, I'd encourage a Training in Ken Jitsu. If not, fencing is very cool. Not saying one is better than the other (well, yeah I am. One skilled with a Katana will defeat anyone ).

Good luck and good times.

 

[Branko_D]

I like European swords, but so far I haven't been able to rationalize buying a fully functional sword

It'd be lovely from the looks viewpoint, but we opted for a modern interior design (I would have preffered rustic, but modern looks good too - I'm not picky) and swords hanging on the wall would look out of place.

Do point out to the kids that decorative swords aren't "full tang" and therefore aren't made to be used steel on steel or even swung with great force. The blade could detach from the grip if it's abused. However, I agree with the rationale.

Wooden training swords and axes are great fun, too. Add shields and helmets to go with it and sturdy protective gloves which are a really good idea for that sort of thing; just make sure they are of sturdy construction and meant for bashing. It's great fun for the whole family (wife gave me the evil eye about buying them for the kids, up to the point we picked them up and sparred ourselves - conceded it was fun as hell*).

*Up to the point someone gets bashed on the fingers and starts screaming, but, well, I did mention that sturdy protective gloves are a good thing. Really.

 

[Mike OTDP]

+1 on fencing. It's easily the most accessible training you are going to get. Most people doing WMA with swords have a fencing background and branched out from there.

 

[NoirFan]

Look at this site: http://myarmoury.com/home.php It's a forum similar to this one for swords and armor. The "Historical" section contains some quite in depth discussions and references by educated international scholars and historical researchers you may find interesting.

I agree, myarmoury.com is probably the most knowledgeable forum on Western pre-modern weapons and armour. Lots of information there on swords, especially medieval types. The tone there is academic so expect to cite sources when making claims.

For books, Ewart Oakeshott created the modern nomenclature for talking about different types of medieval swords, so reading his books is a must. For an insight into sword fighting technique, try "Fighting with the German Long Sword" by Christian Tobler.

If you want to buy one, I think the best-value intersection of price and quality is Valiant Armory http://www.valiant-armoury.com . Quality blades, beautiful leatherwork and scabbard/belt included.

 

[Jim NE]

Great help and resources offered here! Thanks so much and keep them coming. Great to know there are so many swordsmen and ladies out there.

I realized that about the full tang thing. I told them "knighting someone" is about the most you could do with the ones I just bought. Thanks NoirFan for the book suggestion. I'll definitely search that out. And thanks to all others.

 

[hso]

Do not let them play fight with the ceremonial swords since they may snap and impale.

 

[Bobson]

So you could actually fight with those valiant armory blades? Much less expensive than I thought they would be, and they look sharp to boot. Not that I know anything about swords lol. I like that "Practical Arming Sword"... $280? I would have expected them to be closer to a grand, and even their nicest offerings seem to be about half of that.

Is there a comparable sword maker of Japanese style blades? Meaning someone producing a katana or something that's made for more than just wall-hanging?

Now I'm curious who would win (in terms of actual style, not "low budget ninja movie") - a Samurai with a katana, or a skilled knight with a longsword.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Now I'm curious who would win (in terms of actual style, not "low budget ninja movie") - a Samurai with a katana, or a skilled knight with a longsword.

Oh, dear! A "who would win" question!

The styles and weapons are different. Not to mention the armor. I'd have to say that the knight would probably be at a very serious disadvantage, if you're talking about a one-on-one battle.

That's just my opinion, looking at this from my not-trained-in-swordfighting-at-all background. From an engineering perspective, the katana has some serious advantages just based on the design of the weapon, not to mention how the warrior is trained to use it.

And the metal armor of a knight wouldn't be much defense to a classically trained Samurai, whose training included precision attacks at the weak points of armored opponents.

Somebody with actual swordsmanship training out there can feel free to contribute some meaningful input on this, though!

 

[papaairbear]

For the OP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohmLaZHStmI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHIhMBCOc1A

 

[kayakersteve]

Swords - I make them!

I own and operate Union Forge where I specialize in handmade Damscus knives and swords!

Best resource on ID SwordForum.com

 

[DDeegs]

Here's a good site with lots of info http://www.thearma.org/

Dan

 

[NoirFan]

So you could actually fight with those valiant armory blades? Much less expensive than I thought they would be, and they look sharp to boot. Not that I know anything about swords lol. I like that "Practical Arming Sword"... $280? I would have expected them to be closer to a grand, and even their nicest offerings seem to be about half of that.

Is there a comparable sword maker of Japanese style blades? Meaning someone producing a katana or something that's made for more than just wall-hanging?

Now I'm curious who would win (in terms of actual style, not "low budget ninja movie") - a Samurai with a katana, or a skilled knight with a longsword.

The Valiant swords are fairly historical in weight, balance and construction. They come sharpened so you could "fight" with them in the sense of engaging in combat. But I would not use them for practice fencing. Use wooden or blunt steel swords for that.

The samurai and knight played different battlefield roles so it's not a great comparison. The early samurai fought primarily as horse archers and the katana form reflects that: relatively short, curved like a cavalry saber, and slim profile - no crossguard to snag a bowstring. Knights started off as shock cavalry and evolved into armored foot troops. In my opinion the knightly sword is a better melee weapon - with protective crossguard, longer reach and greater penetration - but the differences are not that great. The human body can only move in a certain number of ways so a two-handed sword fighting style is going to look pretty similar wheter it evolved in Europe or Japan.

 

[Bobson]

Cool answers. Thank you, NoirFan and USNChief.

 

[hso]

Is there a comparable sword maker of Japanese style blades?

We have threads and threads on this, but your best source is Sword Buyers Guide for economical usable swords.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I own and operate Union Forge where I specialize in handmade Damscus knives and swords!

Best resource on ID SwordForum.com

Soooo...

What you're saying is that it would be a really cool idea for me to add you to my short list of people to go to, when I get a hunk of HY-80 submarine hull steel, to have a cutlass made, hmmm?

 

[NoirFan]

Soooo...

What you're saying is that it would be a really cool idea for me to add you to my short list of people to go to, when I get a hunk of HY-80 submarine hull steel, to have a cutlass made, hmmm?

They still teach close order cutlass drill in the navy? Stamp-stamp-left-right: Just the thing for when the limeys, frogs or Malays come over the railing!

 

[entropy]

For the kids, kendo and bokken training. Owning the 'real' (though decorative) swords is a big responsibility; they need to learn the difference between practice swords (shinai and bokken) and the real ones.There are some poly models of Western swords made by Cold Steel that might fill the bill there, too.