anyone studied sizing brass at different temperatures?
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Heh well actually my reloading setup is portable now and I do intend to reload on top of a mountain this winter. But the real reason I was asking is my lack of patience. After brass comes out of my annealed I resize it as soon as it doesn’t burn my fingers but it is still quite warm. So I was curious if I should really let it cool first
I would say the composition of copper to zinc, and the work hardness of the brass are more important to the material properties of the brass, within the temperature ranges you have specified. Generally, US brass is 1/4 hard brass.
If you look at these charts, you are going to have to heat the stuff up to anneal brass.
One in color
one in B/W
Warning: I am not a qualified metallurgist, my advice is worth exactly what you paid for it!
If you look at these charts, you are going to have to heat the stuff up to anneal brass.
One in color
one in B/W
Warning: I am not a qualified metallurgist, my advice is worth exactly what you paid for it!
Blue68f100
Member
Once you drop below the critical temp required to anneal nothing else is going to happen. Except you may burn you fingers if you don't allow it to cool enough to handle. The the physical size will change according to thermal expansion. So if your doing it while how you may reduce the size more than needed depending on your dies. But once it contacts your dies it help remover the heat.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
I think the difference is able to be calculated. And is also immeasurable.
Allen One1
Member
You may be onto something related to the thermal expansion and sizing. If the case is hotter and expanded does it resize to a smaller size when the temp stabilizes. I'm not sure if you could measure any difference or not and it would take a bit of time to test it.
Just to be safe I'm going to start heating and cooling my garage to maintain a stead temp when reloading.
Just to be safe I'm going to start heating and cooling my garage to maintain a stead temp when reloading.
WestKentucky
Member
Ain’t that the truth... I got fully changed over and adjusted to run 38spl today. Sweating profusely, not comfortable being so sweaty around powder, especially since I’m still charging manually. Oh well, it’s ready for the next cool day we have...today is July 1, it cools down about September...
Look at that, I finally found a reason to consider moving north. I’m not gonna do it, but I found a reason to consider it.
When shooting Benchrest we would load the same small number of cases over and over all weekend long at the match. I never shot in freezing temps though, and never noticed a difference in cases sizing that I can remember. We would bump charges up and down a hair for cold vs hot but that had nothing to do with the brass.
I imagine it has to make a difference, but it would be hard to measure and then the big question would be does it matter on target, and does it affect neck tension with FL sized brass in standard chambers?
I imagine it has to make a difference, but it would be hard to measure and then the big question would be does it matter on target, and does it affect neck tension with FL sized brass in standard chambers?
I have shot numerous times in freezing weather, and let me tell you, the cold affects me more than the ammunition!
jmorris
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If the only tool you have to measure with is a caliper, you won’t be able to measure the difference.
Even if you have tools capable of more precise measurement, other factors will make the study difficult.
As far as annealing is concerned, my cases can be held by the base in a bare hand right out of the flame.
If you are getting the case so hot the entire case is annealed, you are doing it wrong.
Even if you have tools capable of more precise measurement, other factors will make the study difficult.
As far as annealing is concerned, my cases can be held by the base in a bare hand right out of the flame.
If you are getting the case so hot the entire case is annealed, you are doing it wrong.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
https://www.balseal.com/sites/default/files/tr18_020707131421.pdf
Unfortunately, no brass was listed...uh, I think. Though I don't think it would behave terribly different than what is here, as a reference of magnitude anyway. This is the page I came across when someone brought up the question about non-lubricated Nine Millimeter cases raising the temperature of the die during a session and causing sizing variations. If I remember correctly the tool steel dies expand eleven ten millionths of an inch or some huge (little) number like that. From freezing to four hundred degrees.
I know I can not measure it, nor shoot the difference with what I've got. I will not handload wearing a coat, nor will I handload near the temperature of cellulose ignition.
Load with confidence, my friend. By the time you can touch them and keep lube on them the Metal won't mind.
Unfortunately, no brass was listed...uh, I think. Though I don't think it would behave terribly different than what is here, as a reference of magnitude anyway. This is the page I came across when someone brought up the question about non-lubricated Nine Millimeter cases raising the temperature of the die during a session and causing sizing variations. If I remember correctly the tool steel dies expand eleven ten millionths of an inch or some huge (little) number like that. From freezing to four hundred degrees.
I know I can not measure it, nor shoot the difference with what I've got. I will not handload wearing a coat, nor will I handload near the temperature of cellulose ignition.
Load with confidence, my friend. By the time you can touch them and keep lube on them the Metal won't mind.
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Dudedog
Contributing Member
100+ outside in my reloading (er,hmm, garden) shed for a couple years before I got electricity to it and a got a small AC unit.
Brass resizes fine at 105, press works fine, person doing the work doesn't fair as well but still functions.
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since i'm using the AMP machine, i'm fairly certain i'm doing it perfectly
chrono and targets seem to support that
i have found it interesting, since you brought it up, that the induction method lasts around 3 seconds and the whole case gets pretty warm, too hot to touch. when i was using the giraud, i had the case in the blue part of the flame 8 seconds to hit the temp. the back of those cases were too warm to touch too. however, i never used water.
i was pretty sure this topic was picking nits, but didn't hurt to ask. however, consider a different source of heat. what if you resized the case as soon as it came out of the rifle and was still hot enough to leave a burn on your skin?
when i asked, i actually hadn't considered the expansion from heat of the brass or die. i was thinking that the brass might be softer and the springback would be different and possibly more or less consistent.
when i asked, i actually hadn't considered the expansion from heat of the brass or die. i was thinking that the brass might be softer and the springback would be different and possibly more or less consistent.
jmorris
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A good place to start might be defining what “too hot” actually is. I suppose that that is subject to the individual. May be worth seeing what different temperatures we are working with and exposure time.
If nothing else it would be easier to measure. Gauge pins might tell you something about “spring back” might be easier to use than a bore mic on something like a case and lots cheaper.
Picking nits beats another what progressive thread. Once we know a “high/low” range in temperatures, we could research thermal properties of different alloys of brass. It’s going to be a pretty small number though.
https://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm
I also imagine an insignificant/immeasurable difference between a “hot” out of the annealer to room temperature case. Once annealed brass has to be worked to be hardened. Let it air cool, quench it in water, it doesn’t care, it’s still annealed until you work it.
If nothing else it would be easier to measure. Gauge pins might tell you something about “spring back” might be easier to use than a bore mic on something like a case and lots cheaper.
Picking nits beats another what progressive thread. Once we know a “high/low” range in temperatures, we could research thermal properties of different alloys of brass. It’s going to be a pretty small number though.
https://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm
I also imagine an insignificant/immeasurable difference between a “hot” out of the annealer to room temperature case. Once annealed brass has to be worked to be hardened. Let it air cool, quench it in water, it doesn’t care, it’s still annealed until you work it.
If you want more variability just run the process with more temperature variation.
Over the long term running your process with everything at a stable temperature is better. That would probably be room temp since you normally have your work environment controlled.
In the theoretical world you could run a designed experiment to find the best temp for the process.
I bet you don't care that much. Lack of patience is not a positive characteristic for finding quality solutions.
Over the long term running your process with everything at a stable temperature is better. That would probably be room temp since you normally have your work environment controlled.
In the theoretical world you could run a designed experiment to find the best temp for the process.
I bet you don't care that much. Lack of patience is not a positive characteristic for finding quality solutions.
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