Anyone use FMJ ammo as their carry ammo?

[CraigC]

Sexism.

Who's fighting? I thought this was a discussion among adults so I don't think we need anybody to step in and be our mothers.

 

[Lonestar49]

Flat nose 9mm if any doubts - OMMV

...

At another forum, a guy/retired Deputy Sheriff is now using these 9mm 147gr flat nose bullets for one of his 9mm handguns for HD/SD





Ls

 

[mljdeckard]

I've killed plenty of living things with all of the above. Whether you define it as a hole, or a bunch of things that get pushed out of the way, some of which fall back into the cavity by the time you examine the wound, you still have the same goal. To try to create as much cavity trauma as possible.

 

[Bohemus]

Me, because no expansive ammo is legal for handguns in CZ.
I carry subsonic insted.

 

[Al Thompson]

If an object .451" in diameter cuts through a target, it will not make a hole SMALLER than .451".

I think the key here is "cuts". FMJ seems to punch through rather than cut like a cookie cutter. The deer I popped with my 1911 had a small bruised entrance wound about the size of a dime with a small tear in the skin. I agree that the outside diameter of the bullet was .451, but disagree that the tissue was "cut". Forced aside may better describe what I saw. Sort of like stabbing someone with a knitting needle.

Jim Cirillo had lots of interesting things to say about bullet performance and he wasn't all that wild about JHPs. But he hated "widow maker" round nosed bullets due to the ice pick wounds left behind.

For those carrying FMJ as some sort of economical barrier blind ammo, be aware that JHPs tend to dig in better on hard cover than the rounded noses of FMJ.

 

[Deanimator]

But what if your attacker starts shooting at you from behind hard cover,

I prepare for LIKELY scenarios, such as robberies and carjackings. How does somebody do either of those things "from behind hard cover"?

It sounds like no handgun with ANY ammunition is going to be the solution to that kind of situation. The problem is that I never carry my Garand when I'm out and about.

 

[bigfatdave]

I prepare for LIKELY scenarios, such as robberies and carjackings. How does somebody do either of those things "from behind hard cover"?

You're just not tactical enough, I guess.

 

[jon_in_wv]

If an object .451" in diameter cuts through a target, it will not make a hole SMALLER than .451".

That is true, but FMJs don't CUT. They are smooth and round. They tear and in general the wound created will pretty reliably be smaller than the diameter of the bullet. If you were comparing the meplat of a flatnosed 9mm vs 45 bullet then the argument has more merit but in FMJs, not really.

 

[Old Guy]

Just read your Bio? Unlike most on these Blogs, you have documented evidence of being in a fire fight (Purple Heart?) Most on these boards have not been in a fist fight, ever!

So what we more or less have to do is read after action reports, and the writings of such as Dr. Fackler and De Maio, not a very difficult subject really.

My personal feeling is lots of bullets in gun, 9mm for me.
16 rounds in Glock 19, spare Glock 17 mag; 17 more rounds.
"More is better, always" I said that!

I like WW 127/147 Ranger Hollow points, very accurate, a pistol I shoot well, and carried for a long time, shot in IDPA, a free wheeling SPORT, yes it is a sport.

Maximize the accuracy, TruGlow sights.

As most shootings in street fights, LEO or not, take place at close range, 10FT?
being around a good guess, I reckon if I get shots away first? No guarantee in that area, I will hit well, a bunch.

I was an Expert Witness in the biggest self defense decision in Canada, what happened really? The stolen 2" snub nose, stuck via the exposed hammer, in a Jacket Pocket! Bad Guy nil, good guy one!

 

[RDCL]

Anyone use FMJ as their carry ammo?

Why not? Especially in .45 scp......it has served the US military for generations and has served well.


Anyone recall Alvin C. York?
Several Germans charged him with fixed bayonets and he dropped all of them with his hardball-loaded 1911. So, if it served Sgt. york well it'll work for me.


Russ

 

[brandon_mcg]

In my 9mm i use JHP.

In my 1911 .45 i use FMJ at this time because my 1911 does not feed JHP reliably. If it doesnt feed it doesnt work.

 

[ChCx2744]

I prefer JHP's against fleshy things, such as 2-legged goblins and the sort. I do, strongly, believe that JHP rounds can stop a man better than FMJ rounds, but without a doubt, FMJ rounds do seem to feed better out of most modern semi-auto pistol designs. I've had problems shooting Double Tap 127 gr Bonded Defense JHP's, but all FMJ I've shot have shot flawlessly (Mostly every other major SD JHP load seems to feed just fine, however). I guess it really depends on the kind of gun you are shooting more than the ammo; not all guns eat different kinds of ammo the same way, that's why you gotta test out different kinds of ammo and see what your gun likes to eat.

 

[kimbershot]

fmj

230 gr. factory 45 acp. fmj. it's been standard bearer for almost 100yrs. i am not concerned with over penetration, i am concerned with protecting my butt.

 

[Deanimator]

Several Germans charged him with fixed bayonets and he dropped all of them with his hardball-loaded 1911. So, if it served Sgt. york well it'll work for me.

I don't know about you, but I don't anticipate reducing any fortifications or neutralizing any machine gun nests in the near future.

I also don't imagine that there were too many civilian bystanders hanging around when York was doing his thing.

If York shot through a German.. or two, that was a bonus. If he did, the final recipient didn't get to sue him.

If I wound or kill an unlawful assailant and the shooting is ruled justified, the State of Ohio holds me immune from suit by him or on his behalf. If I shoot THROUGH him and kill somebody's toddler, I'm TOAST in civil court, even if I'm not indicted in criminal court.

 

[CraigC]

Several Germans charged him with fixed bayonets and he dropped all of them with his hardball-loaded 1911. So, if it served Sgt. york well it'll work for me.

It boggles the mind what excuses some folks will use to justify use of a vastly overrated.....well, anything.

 

[Al Thompson]

it's been standard bearer for almost 100yrs.

It's been substandard for almost 100yrs. There, fixed it for you.

i am concerned with protecting my butt.

Seriously? You claim to be concerned and you still carry substandard ammo?

 

[therewolf]

Yes, I am. God forbid, if attacked, IF I happen to be CCW, and bring the weapon on target, 230 GR .45 ACP FMJ will produce a reasonably rapid premature death to a less than laudable life, IMO.

Because if some scumball attacks me, he doesn't DESERVE the good stuff. On the off-chance that there's "innocent bystanders" around (?) I wouldn't shoot, I'd look over and say "YO! A little help here.".

I'll be darned if I'm going to scrimp and save to target practice with Wal-Mart JRN, and then go to the extra trouble to spend more on "special" ammo in the event I might have to use it for self defense against some terd wad because, for some unlikely reason, he decided to commit a violent crime against me in a crowded neighborhood.

Since it would be a rare (at least for me) occurrence, I'm not too pre-occupied with over-penetration. But if it doesn't work, and the guy still kills me, I've instructed my surviving kin to get a full refund from Wal-Mart for that box of ammo...

 

[Deanimator]

I'll be darned if I'm going to scrimp and save to target practice with Wal-Mart JRN, and then go to the extra trouble to spend more on "special" ammo in the event I might have to use it for self defense against some terd wad because, for some unlikely reason, he decided to commit a violent crime against me in a crowded neighborhood.

Given that I've never lived in or had civilian work in the Mojave Desert, pretty much any place I'm likely to need to shoot somebody is going to be "in a crowded neighborhood".

 

[jimmyraythomason]

pretty much any place I'm likely to need to shoot somebody is going to be "in a crowded neighborhood".

My situation (in all likelyhood) would be exactly the opposite.

 

[481]

I only read the first two pages, and I couldn't stand any more...there was a serious collection of stupidity in those two pages.

FMJ ammo?
No.
Period.
Regardless of caliber.

If you insist on carrying an inadequate caliber, do as you will at your own risk.

If you carry an adequate caliber (9mm or greater) then you can use good quality JHPs with a degree of confidence.

There is no "magic bullet". But there is a difference between "pea shooter" and "defensive pistol".

You have to decide where that line lies....each of us does, and has.

I agree with you. Silliness abounds here.

Use FMJ? Sure, if I am absolutely stuck with it. Beats nothing at all.

With the wealth of high-quality SD ammo that we typically have at our collective disposal, why not exploit its benefits instead?

What really shocks me is the number of people here espousing the use of "flat point" or "truncated cone" FMJs in order to address their concerns about overpenetration and mitigate the effect, when in fact, it has been proven conclusively that the use of that projectile configuration (FMJTC, FMJFP) actually increases terminal penetration against soft tissue over that of FMJRN ammunition.

 

[Deanimator]

My situation (in all likelyhood) would be exactly the opposite.

The least densely populated place I've ever lived as a civilian was Fremont, Ohio and there was NO place I ever went there where a through and through WOULDN'T have endangered a bystander, either on the street or in a building of some sort.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Silliness abounds here.

You got that right! So does prejudice. As with many situations,this is NOT a one size fits all. If you are happy with your carry weapon and ammo,great. I am with mine and that should settle the question(although we all know it won't).

 

[Ben86]

What really shocks me is the number of people here espousing the use of "flat point" or "truncated cone" FMJs in order to address their concerns about overpenetration and mitigate the effect, when in fact, it has been proven conclusively that the use of that projectile configuration (FMJTC, FMJFP) actually increases terminal penetration against soft tissue.

Yes, it actually stabilizes the bullet when moving through the tissue decreasing the possibility of the bullet turning which would slow it down. It only marginally increases cavity destruction. Big game hunters use the flat point because it's better at penetrating hard tissue such as bone and dense muscle.

I carry FMJ with me if I'm around the house (middle of nowhere) where my chances of needing the gun will most likely be for a varmint of some kind. I do not doubt fmj's ability to get the job done, I just think that jhps do it better. When I conceal carry it's jhps for me, even in .380.

 

[moonman16]

45ACP 230FMJ, it will feed and work just fine.

 

[JShirley]

This thread contains some of the biggest collection of stupid ever seen on THR. In the final analysis, everyone has to make their own choices- but we're talking about behaviors that could potentially kill innocents, whether in the area, or shooters reading this thread who don't have the knowledge or experience to know the truth from utter nonsense.

Not all bullets meant to expand WILL expand, when used.
Bullets designed to expand will expand much more frequently when used than bullets not designed to expand.
Given adequate penetration, a bullet that makes a larger hole will stop a threat more effectively than one that makes a smaller hole.
The only place for FMJ in a defensive piece is in small handguns (.25 and perhaps .32) that lack penetration, or if FMJ is the only ammunition available, due to law or supply.

If your carry piece won't reliably feed expanding rounds, you need to take it to a gunsmith, or get a carry piece that will feed them, as soon as you can afford it.

The end.