Because the only stock trigger better is a 1911. I'm not saying there are better guns but Sig, HK, Beretta, XD...all have worse triggers. Oh Walther have better triggers, but many don't buy them due to a lack of accessories and aftermarket support....
Apex trigger for M&P or just get a Glock?
- Thread starter Kayaker 1960
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Quote: Because the only stock trigger better is a 1911. I'm not saying there are better guns but Sig, HK, Beretta, XD...all have worse triggers.Quote.
That's just your opinion.Most people who say DA/SA pistols have bad triggers just can't shoot them well.
That's just your opinion.Most people who say DA/SA pistols have bad triggers just can't shoot them well.
Just wanted to address the higthlighted portion (everything else is pretty much true, but is getting better).
S&W has/had a good rep. for supporting Walther when they were the sole U.S. distributor, but Walther now has its own stateside customer support center in Ft. Smith, Arkansas. I haven't had to use Walther CS, so I cannot actually address the quality of their service.
If/when accessories become more readily available for Walther products, and if/when Walther ramps up production without sacrificing quality...Glock and Sig et. al may have a fight on their hands to hold onto market share.
For the now, Walther seems content to be a smaller, almost a "niche" company, at least as far as the western hemisphere is concerned.
OP
OP
Kayaker 1960
Member
9mmEpiphany,
Thank you for the suggestion I'll look into the DCAEK enhancement.
My 40c is an older model. Other than the trigger I really like the gun.
Thank you for the suggestion I'll look into the DCAEK enhancement.
My 40c is an older model. Other than the trigger I really like the gun.
hardluk1
member
160+ dollars , NOOO. Apex trigger kits selling for 97 and 93 dollars . Sounds like someone sucker someone else. !! I have not felt to me stock 1911 trigger that felt all that good ether. They also can stand some tuning.
Many m&p pistol just need to be shot to feel good a few my need a trigger block change to make them smooth. Then add on of the two apex kits will improve them even more . The comp kit will leave you with a 3 1/2lb trigger that is very nice and far better than any other stricker trigger with only a very good 1911 being better, atleast having shorter pull. I have a nice 3 1/2lb trigger on my 1911 and my wifes m&pc has a 3 1/2lb trigger . I like both egualy as well . Till you shot a g34 or 35 that's broke in a typical glock trigger are a bit mushy to me.
Many m&p pistol just need to be shot to feel good a few my need a trigger block change to make them smooth. Then add on of the two apex kits will improve them even more . The comp kit will leave you with a 3 1/2lb trigger that is very nice and far better than any other stricker trigger with only a very good 1911 being better, atleast having shorter pull. I have a nice 3 1/2lb trigger on my 1911 and my wifes m&pc has a 3 1/2lb trigger . I like both egualy as well . Till you shot a g34 or 35 that's broke in a typical glock trigger are a bit mushy to me.
OP
OP
Kayaker 1960
Member
Just ordered the kit....
I just ordered the DCAEK kit after doing some research. I'll let ya'll know how it turns out.
I just ordered the DCAEK kit after doing some research. I'll let ya'll know how it turns out.
Be sure to order the specific Shield version...they are just releasing it
bronco_buster
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I was a Glock hater for years. I didn't like the idea of tupperware in firearms. I still question whether or not the plastic...er...polymer will hold up over time. Seems to be doing well so far, but when I consider old automotive plastic, its obvious that some "polymer" does not age well at all. That being said, I was a huge fan of the Browning Hi Power, 1911 and CZ 75, mainly because of their lack of polymer.
My FFL is an officer who took me shooting and showed me the beauty of the Glock short reset trigger. After that I acquired a G30SF and he upgraded it with a 3.5lb trigger bar. The reset is short, audible and most of all palpable. Their is a very obvious click and absolutely no doubt that the pistol is ready to fire. I eventually ended up with a G23 that I modded and a stock G19 for carry.
I wanted to try another polymer pistol, so I bought an XDM 45. After a couple of range trips, I sold it. The trigger was long and pretty gritty. Reset was mushy compared to the Glock. Seemed top heavy to me with a high bore axis and therefore I couldn't get it to group well.
I bought an M&P to compare to the XDM and the Glock. The M&P feels the best in hand. Its one of those guns that just feels like it was designed for your hand. The trigger however...SUCKED. From the factory the pull was long and the hinged trigger was extremely spongy. Reset was non-existent, but accuracy was excellent, so I decided to try the APEX forward set trigger kit. I installed it in less than an hour. After the install, the pistol was completely transformed! Trigger pull is short, crisp and light. I measured mine at 3.5 pounds. Reset is very short but the click is not near as audible or tactile as the glock, but it is much smoother. The aluminum trigger is wider and fits my finger much better than any other polymer pistol that I've shot. The M&P is so good I briefly considered selling off my Glocks, however, the aftermarket support for Glocks is difficult to match. Availability of M&P 17rd 9mm mags, for example, was extemely limited...if they could be found, people were gouging at a rate of $60 each.
So...to answer your question...if I owned an M&P and didn't own a Glock, I would drop the bucks on the APEX FSS trigger kit. It'll give you a trigger that feels better than any factory Glock trigger, and in my experience, better than the few upgraded triggers that I've used on Glocks. Downside is that in comparison to a $10 Glock drop in 3.5 trigger bar and $10 spring kit, you're paying $165. If you're a tinkerer or WECSOG gunsmith, then the Glock certainly gains more favor for cheaper more readily available aftermarket upgrades.
The biggest difference, to me, and why I like the M&P so much, is because the M&P feels so much better in my hand. But, a downside after messing with it, is that there are little "gotchas" to installing upgrades on it. Notably, to install the Apex FSS, you have to drift the rear sight out to get to the firing pin block...talk about a pain in the ass! They're notoriously tight which is good for the field, but I had to buy a sight tool to get the rear sight out. The Glock internals are much more user friendly to service.
Good luck with your decision!!
My FFL is an officer who took me shooting and showed me the beauty of the Glock short reset trigger. After that I acquired a G30SF and he upgraded it with a 3.5lb trigger bar. The reset is short, audible and most of all palpable. Their is a very obvious click and absolutely no doubt that the pistol is ready to fire. I eventually ended up with a G23 that I modded and a stock G19 for carry.
I wanted to try another polymer pistol, so I bought an XDM 45. After a couple of range trips, I sold it. The trigger was long and pretty gritty. Reset was mushy compared to the Glock. Seemed top heavy to me with a high bore axis and therefore I couldn't get it to group well.
I bought an M&P to compare to the XDM and the Glock. The M&P feels the best in hand. Its one of those guns that just feels like it was designed for your hand. The trigger however...SUCKED. From the factory the pull was long and the hinged trigger was extremely spongy. Reset was non-existent, but accuracy was excellent, so I decided to try the APEX forward set trigger kit. I installed it in less than an hour. After the install, the pistol was completely transformed! Trigger pull is short, crisp and light. I measured mine at 3.5 pounds. Reset is very short but the click is not near as audible or tactile as the glock, but it is much smoother. The aluminum trigger is wider and fits my finger much better than any other polymer pistol that I've shot. The M&P is so good I briefly considered selling off my Glocks, however, the aftermarket support for Glocks is difficult to match. Availability of M&P 17rd 9mm mags, for example, was extemely limited...if they could be found, people were gouging at a rate of $60 each.
So...to answer your question...if I owned an M&P and didn't own a Glock, I would drop the bucks on the APEX FSS trigger kit. It'll give you a trigger that feels better than any factory Glock trigger, and in my experience, better than the few upgraded triggers that I've used on Glocks. Downside is that in comparison to a $10 Glock drop in 3.5 trigger bar and $10 spring kit, you're paying $165. If you're a tinkerer or WECSOG gunsmith, then the Glock certainly gains more favor for cheaper more readily available aftermarket upgrades.
The biggest difference, to me, and why I like the M&P so much, is because the M&P feels so much better in my hand. But, a downside after messing with it, is that there are little "gotchas" to installing upgrades on it. Notably, to install the Apex FSS, you have to drift the rear sight out to get to the firing pin block...talk about a pain in the ass! They're notoriously tight which is good for the field, but I had to buy a sight tool to get the rear sight out. The Glock internals are much more user friendly to service.
Good luck with your decision!!
Did you loosen the set screw enough before you began to press it out?bronco_buster said:
I've installed the Apex Tactical Specialties' Ultimate Striker Block on 3 different M&Ps...and each time I only used a wooded dowel with the tip wrapped in tape to prevent splintering. After loosening the set screw, 1 almost fell out and the other 2 were an easy tap out...I didn't even use a vice to hold the slide steady. I've never heard of the rear sight being "notoriously tight."
However I have heard that about the front sight. It was certainly true of the only M&P that I've tried to change the front sight on. I finally sent it to a pistol smith who locked in in a large bench vice and drove it out with a punch and large hammer...he said he had to hit it hard enough that it flew across the room. He installed the Dawson front sight that I sent, which isn't a simple thing either, but that was a known quality when I bought it
hardluk1
member
Most guys I know don't want or need the apex trigger . You get the 3.5lb trigger pull with the DCAEK and its under a 100 bucks. I can feel the click but not hear it so feel is all I need anyhow. Around here you can buy a M&P and a apex kit and still be with in 10 bucks for the cost of a gen4 glock .
Quack
Member
A quick bend of the trigger bar will get the audible/tactile reset.
Or you can place a strategic weld on the slide stop to increase reset feel
Or you can place a strategic weld on the slide stop to increase reset feel
But the Gen 4 Glock comes with one more magazine. Around here the M&P is $549 and the Glock Gen 4 is $579 (you can find them both cheaper but the gap is still around the same). I think I paid $535 for my last Glock gen 4 and I paid $499 for my last M&P. Any way you cut it....it's the price difference of the magazine.
OP
OP
Kayaker 1960
Member
fantastic plastic
(I'm the O.P.) I already have the M&P40c so that expense is done spent. The APEX kit is less expensive than selling and buying.
I bought the 40c instead of a G27 because the 40c does feel better in my hand. The G22 and G23 feel a little blocky but the baby Glocks are over the top blocky feeling. That being said, The feel of my G22 doesn't bother me when shooting it. The gun shoots where I point it and feels very natural to me.
My 40c feels better when just holding it but again, I don't notice the difference in the grip while shooting it.
Someone asked why have 2 40's? G22 is a full sized gun. It is great for everything except being discrete. The 40c disappears under a shirt or jacket and is just less in the way when on my hip. No question though, the G22 is a better shooting gun.
(I'm the O.P.) I already have the M&P40c so that expense is done spent. The APEX kit is less expensive than selling and buying.
I bought the 40c instead of a G27 because the 40c does feel better in my hand. The G22 and G23 feel a little blocky but the baby Glocks are over the top blocky feeling. That being said, The feel of my G22 doesn't bother me when shooting it. The gun shoots where I point it and feels very natural to me.
My 40c feels better when just holding it but again, I don't notice the difference in the grip while shooting it.
Someone asked why have 2 40's? G22 is a full sized gun. It is great for everything except being discrete. The 40c disappears under a shirt or jacket and is just less in the way when on my hip. No question though, the G22 is a better shooting gun.
hardluk1
member
If you need a better trigger try the apex firing pin block and spring change first and judge how it feels . That's the main part to make a much better trigger pull with the m&p pistols.
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I shot a buddy's Gen 4 G27 for the first time, at a 100yds silhouette, 2 of 2 rds on target: incredible pistol.
I had several M&Ps: (2) 40c, a .45 , and a 9 Pro. REALLY liked the 40c controlability for a compact, but I often train as I carry: wearing gloves. That hinged M&P trigger is a no-go for me, and THAT drop-in upgrade is substantial. Sold them all.
The now infamous Glock .25 cent DIY trigger work, a little learning time, etc.. OTOH, the PPQ M2 trigger is as close to stock heaven as I've found: just shoot em...
I had several M&Ps: (2) 40c, a .45 , and a 9 Pro. REALLY liked the 40c controlability for a compact, but I often train as I carry: wearing gloves. That hinged M&P trigger is a no-go for me, and THAT drop-in upgrade is substantial. Sold them all.
The now infamous Glock .25 cent DIY trigger work, a little learning time, etc.. OTOH, the PPQ M2 trigger is as close to stock heaven as I've found: just shoot em...
With the set screw loosened in the rear sight, the "hardest" part is to make sure you do not lose the spring that is captured underneath.
After damaging a dove tail front sight in another pistol, I bought a sight pusher for the M&P slides. Works well but pricey for a one time use. I bought mine after getting my second M&P. It gave me the opportunity to try different sights until I found the one I liked. Also, I was able to adjust the front sight to get the point of aim to my liking.
The longer 5" Pro slide takes a little futzing to get the pusher to work.
I have a M&P in .357 Sig for a range gun. At 9mmepifiny's suggestion I put in the Apex DCAEK and RAM. It was worth every penny. That gun is one of my favorites, and if you are and old 1911 shooter, as I am, it will shoot perfectly.
The younger guys who have shot mine, and are used to Glocks, just what to know where to get one.
The younger guys who have shot mine, and are used to Glocks, just what to know where to get one.
Inebriated
Member
If you shoot the M&P well, get the kit. No reason to switch if the trigger will fix your issue with it.
My M&P 9c went from bening a good gun to a great gun after putting in the defensive/carry set up. Made it the best striker fired trigger I've ever had. Like a 1911 only longer. For me and many others the ergo's on the M&P are jusy light years ahead of the Glock. Take that into account ad all the problems with Glocks over the past 4 years and it's no contest. And to put hings into perspective about how many problems the Glocks are having The have replaced my original G19 5 times after not being able to get one to work longer than 2000 rounds. Two weren't right out of the box. My M&P as been perfect.
1KPerDay
Member
What's a trigger block?
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
I actually like the stock M&P trigger better than the Glock, except for the false reset on it. Does the DCAEK fix that issue?
Nope the D/C AEK only affects the trigger takeup and let off. Their RAM (Reset Assist Mechanism) offers a more discrete reset.
The factory fix has been to add an addition bump/wedge/ramp on the right side Slide lock lever
The factory fix has been to add an addition bump/wedge/ramp on the right side Slide lock lever
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