Appleseed Rimfires

[mac66]

So I went to my first Appleseed this weekend. It actually qualified as Winterseed since the temp was 6 degrees Saturday and 8 on Sunday, though it warmed up into the 20s later in the day.

This shoot was for rimfires only since it was on a outdoor pistol range.
I tried to take note of the rifles used. Fifteen shooters, 10 with Ruger 10/22s all with scopes. The other rifles were two bolt actions, two AR type 22s and a Sig 522.

You can see some of the rifles on the line. The kid in the red hat in the center of the photo had a real ACOG on his S&W w/ 22 kit. His grandfather was next to him with another scoped AR.



I took my 20 year old daughter and we both shot Ruger 10/22s. I was able to earn my Rifleman patch on Sunday with a score of 216. I later shot a 227 and a couple more in the 220s. Her highest was 170 but only because she was having trouble getting all her shots off in time. Otherwise she was accurate enough to have scored.



Some of the instruction...it was nippy out



And the new Rifleman patch earners. We had 7 out of 15.



I highly recommend Appleseed to anyone, no matter how skilled they are. It is a very educational and fun program.

www.appleseedinfo.org

 

[GCBurner]

It's on my list of Things To Do In 2011.

 

[Phaethon]

I would be excited about going and reaping the Youth discount, had I a .22, or a location anywhere within 200 miles to go to.

 

[alemonkey]

Wow, 7 Riflemen out of 15 shooters is great results. Getting that Rifleman patch is no small accomplishment. Congratulations on earning your patch!

 

[Phaethon]

What do you have to do to qualify for the Rifleman patch?

 

[happygeek]

Congratulations!

I've only been to one Appleseed so far; out of the 12 to 15 who hung around for the second day me and 4 others made Rifleman (I used a CMMG 22LR dedicated upper with 5x scope). 7 out of 15 is impressive, you must have had a very skilled group and/or very good instructors.

What do you have to do to qualify for the Rifleman patch?

Shoot 210 or more out of 250 points: 10 shots standing, 10 kneeling or sitting, 20 prone.

 

[chris in va]

I really don't understand why scopes are allowed at Appleseed. Really makes the playing field uneven. Had a guy next to me using an ACOG that hadn't been sighted in yet, spending the next three hours trying to figure out how it works.

I'd like to see everyone using the 10/22 with TechSights across the board, but obviously unrealistic requirement.

 

[CraigC]

I really don't understand why scopes are allowed at Appleseed. Really makes the playing field uneven.

I disagree. Given equal skill, the iron sight shooter gives up nothing to a scoped shooter. Not in this context.

 

[prid93]

I disagree. Given equal skill, the iron sight shooter gives up nothing to a scoped shooter. Not in this context.

Personally, I think it would be better to learn using irons. I feel that if one can shoot well with irons, its easier to transition to using a scope than the other way around...thats just my opinion though.

An appleseed is on my to do list during the summer as well. I'm really looking forward to finally going to one. I plan on taking advantage of the under 21 discount .

 

[LKB3rd]

The reason that scopes are allowed is because it is about learning and improving, not a contest. But, I do agree that it is easier with a scope.

 

[mac66]

Remember that in Appleseed the only person you are competing against is yourself. It is not a contest. While all of us who earned a patch used a scope, more than half did not. Fundamentals are the same whether using a scope or iron sights. it is not easy either way.

I shot with a scope and am now working on qualifying with iron sights. Then I am going to work on qualifying with a bolt action. Then an AR15, then my M1a.

 

[mac66]

I probably should have described the course of fire.

The range is 25 meters or yards depending where you are shooting. The targets are scaled to represent 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards.

The course of fire is...250 points. 210 earns the patch

Stage 1. Standing-One mag 10 rounds in 2 minutes on the 100 yard target. Scoring is 5, 4 or 3 points. 50 pts total.

2. Two mags, loaded 2 in one, 8 in the other. There are two 200 yard targets. Starting from a standing position you go to a sitting position, load the 2 round mag, shoot the first target with 2 rounds, reload, shoot the first target with 3 more rounds and then put 5 rounds in the second target in 55 seconds. 50 points

3. Two mags, 2 and 8 as noted above. Three 300 yard targets. Starting from standing you go to prone, load and then shoot the first target twice, reload, shot one more round on the first target, three in the second and 4 in the third in 65 seconds. 50 points

4. One mag, ten rounds on four 400 yard targets. 2 shots on the first, 2 shots on the second, 3 and 3 on the third and fourth targets. You have 5 minutes and each shot is 10 points. Total of 100 points.

 

[451 Detonics]

I really don't understand why scopes are allowed at Appleseed. Really makes the playing field uneven. Had a guy next to me using an ACOG that hadn't been sighted in yet, spending the next three hours trying to figure out how it works.

20 years ago I would have probably agreed but old eyes and iron sights can be a tough combo when the targets get small. I plan on shooting one this spring, will use a S&W 1522 most likely unless I get around to building a 10/22 with a bull barrel and carbine style sights.

 

[Usagi]

I really don't understand why scopes are allowed at Appleseed. Really makes the playing field uneven. Had a guy next to me using an ACOG that hadn't been sighted in yet, spending the next three hours trying to figure out how it works.

I agree in principle.

Except - it is easier to learn to shoot with a scope. Appleseed markets itself as a marksmanship clinic.


But - there is some bit of confusion, too, as Appleseed states:

Participants are taught fundamental rifle marksmanship skills that are to allow a Rifleman to be accurate out to 500 yards, with iron sights, standard rifle and surplus ammo.

Now, what CraigC says is very true - for a true Rifleman, given equal skill, there is no difference shooting irons or a scope on this course of fire. Methinks a lot of folks hide behind the scope perhaps?

 

[CraigC]

Methinks a lot of folks hide behind the scope perhaps?

Perhaps!

 

[mac66]

I don't think most people know how to use/zero in iron sights. While Appleseed teaches one on to zero military type sights most people find it easier to just buy a scope.

I used a scope because I can't see the front sight anymore. I will admit however that since I was investing the time and money to attend Appleseed I did want to give myself every advantage to be successful. I don't see a problem with that.

 

[alemonkey]

Remember that in Appleseed the only person you are competing against is yourself. It is not a contest.

Exactly right.

At Appleseed we don't want to turn anyone away, so all rifles are welcome as long as they're safe and appropriate for the range we're using. I personally think everyone should know how to shoot with irons, but I know a lot of people already have a scope mounted to their .22 and if we had an "iron sights only" rule we would exclude a huge number of shooters. I also know that many people have problems with irons due to aging eyes, myself included. I will agree that it's easier to shoot Rifleman with a scope - I've done it with both, and I can add a significant amount to my score by using optics since my eyes aren't the best. The techniques apply equally whether you're shooting irons or a scope. We teach the skills needed to shoot accurately. The choice of equipment is up to the shooter.

Besides, Appleseed really isn't about shooting. It's about waking people up, getting them to recognize their heritage, and getting them involved with their country. The shooting is just a hook we use to get them in the door.

 

[mac66]

And...of course people are investing a significant amount of time and money to come shoot and listen to the history. May was well allow them every advantage to be successful.

 

[Faitmaker]

good job on your patch. Huzzah!

I've been twice now and love it. I use a Marlin 795 with Tech sights.

Sent from my HTC Liberty using Tapatalk

 

[mac66]

And I just bought a Marlin 795 a couple weeks ago and am turning into a LTR soon. Love those little rifles.

 

[dnthmn]

Now, what CraigC says is very true - for a true Rifleman, given equal skill, there is no difference shooting irons or a scope on this course of fire. Methinks a lot of folks hide behind the scope perhaps?

With the caveat of excellent eye sight.

 

[Usagi]

With the caveat of excellent eye sight.

Can't speak for others, but *I* do not have great eyesight.
*I* used to hide behind the excuse of needing a scope.
Then *I* decided I wanted to shoot well with irons, and trained that way.

Got my patch with open sights... on a tube-fed, no less.



Still think a lot of folks hide behind the glass. Try it with irons. Once you can make the grade with irons unsupported, then go back and try glass from a rest and watch how small your groups get!

 

[donkee]

There are a couple scheduled within minutes of where I live.

I will need to get my son and my nephew out to them.

Looks like a great time.

 

[mac66]

Donkee,

I was just at the one in Lapeer. Next one is in Fenton in April. Next one after that is in Houghton Lake in June. Maybe I will see you at one of them.

One of the nice things about this training is that the instructors are very enthusiastic (all volunteers) and will work one on one with anyone who needs it. I took my 20 year old daughter (purple hat, white gloves in range shot) who drove home from college to shoot with me. Multiple instructors worked with her throughout the two days and she improved greatly. She also hung in there in the bitter cold and never complained once.

 

[mac66]

More pictures

Just thought I would show the guns I took to Appleseed.

Top is my Liberty Training Rifle, 20" bbl 10/22 rifle with Tech Sights, extended mag release, modified bolt release and flash hider. The flash hider is worthless but it does protect the crown and muzzle if you happen to dip it during prone firing. I shot it the second day.

Middle is the one I shot my rifleman score. It is a 1990's era, no longer made AMT Hunter 10/22 clone. It is all stainless w/ a 22" tapered barrel. It came with a factory extend mag release and auto bolt release. The stock is OEM and was made by Choate. Scope is an 25+ year old 4X Tasco.

Bottom is a 10/22 with a 16" youth barrel and a shortened cut down stock I made for my daughter. Scope is a 30 year old 1.4-4X Bushnell. I added an extended mag release and modified the bolt release.

Note the cheek pads on the bottom two. You really need a good cheek weld if you are going to use a scope.

I also forgot to mention the patch. The one shown is given for severe weather i.e., winter condition matches. They call that Winterseed. You have your choice of that or the regular OD patch if you earn it during the winter. They also have a Tan patch.