Appropriate range clothing

[goldpelican]

Obviously this particular instance was ultimately a case of muzzle and trigger discipline no matter what the distraction was, however it sounds like the guy was otherwise an experienced owner that taught his kids how to handle firearms at appropriate age, just like many of us on here have, do or will. A freak occurrence, but fodder for the anti-gun media judging by today's coverage.

Honestly I would think that a range visitor is more likely to be shot by a stranger's poor range discipline than this incident being repeated, but if the simple act of switching from a t-shirt to a long sleeved short, or adding a brimmed hat to reduce the chance of unexpected hot brass from either your own gun or another shooting lane mitigates the risk... it's worth considering.

So summing up recommendations:

• wide brimmed hat (like a boonie hat)
• t-shirt with tight fitting neck, or buttoned collared shirt
• long sleeves
• covered footwear

Finally Ryanxia's quote:

We need to not lose that muzzle discipline when we're surprised while shooting

Perhaps a little mantra before every day of shooting to remind ourselves of muzzle discipline. I used to do a lot of SCUBA diving - at the beginning of every dive there was a mental mantra my buddy and I would go over in the event of an underwater emergency (panic is a big killer) - "STOP, breath, think, act". It could be applied to the range as well. Surprise should be the cue to stop and think, not to flail around with a gun in our hand.

 

[denton]

I can't imagine any case from a pistol getting hot enough to burn.

I've seen a few cases of ladies catching hot brass down the front of their shirt. Judging from the response, it burned.

 

[AZAndy]

I had an ejected .22 case land between my forehead and my glasses, that ended up resting on my eye lid, during the rapid fire portion of a .22 league pistol match. I didn't finish that part of the match, but I didn't shoot anybody either.

I've done that with a .45ACP, and it definitely left a mark. It's amazing how quickly I can get my glasses off. From that day forward, I've always worn a baseball cap while shooting semi-autos.

 

[Plan2Live]

As a range master I've taken a few down the shirt when wearing a collared shirt. Doesn't take too many of those to encourage you to wear a t-shirt with a tighter collar.

When we run our CWP classes we have a coach behind each student or every other student if stretched for helpers. We have a range master behind the coaches watching everything and calling the sets. I had a woman fire her first round out of a S&W M&P and had the spent brass drop right between her safety glasses and her cheek. She screamed, started to pivot with gun in hand. I reached for and trapped her gun hand between my hands yelling trigger, trigger, trigger and the range master stepped forward and placed a large forearm diagonally across her upper back keeping her inside the shooting lane. She gladly surrendered the gun, tore off the eye protection and all was well. She lagged behind on the next set but we eventually caught up to the rest of the class and she qualified just fine.

I've had other big bosomed women come to class with lots of exposed cleavage and asked them to use a cover shirt (just on the range of course) for their own projection. Same thing with open toe shoes, we ask them to wear closed toe shoes.

 

[Apachedriver]

I've had other big bosomed women come to class with lots of exposed cleavage and asked them to use a cover shirt (just on the range of course) for their own projection.

How's that for a Freudian slip?

I had similar happen at a class once as well. Except the woman was offended that the instructor offered her a shirt for the range portion. She honed in on his words - "You may want to cover up for this next portion." Later, she was cursing at her boyfriend (in the next lane) for dropping 9mm casings into her cleavage. The instructor ended up moving him to another lane so we could continue.

In her case, however, she did point the weapon forward and down when she'd stop to curse him out.

 

[CapnMac]

.22LR get scandalously hot, particularly the rim where the metal is thinnest. Now, they also cool the fastest, too. Still stings more than a bit if caught up in clothing.

Female cleavage is sensitive to such things (and also an innate reflex against being touched there without permission). I remember an otherwise quiet midweek day at the range where a young lady had far too intimate an experience with a 9x18 (or a 7.62x25) case, and she shucked out of two t shirts and a sports bra faster than a magic act card trick. weapon was pointed down range. I put my attention back where it belonged, down range (learned long ago that unintentionally topless redheads with pistols are not to be trifled with).

 

[Panzerschwein]

.22LR get scandalously hot, particularly the rim where the metal is thinnest. Now, they also cool the fastest, too. Still stings more than a bit if caught up in clothing.

Female cleavage is sensitive to such things (and also an innate reflex against being touched there without permission). I remember an otherwise quiet midweek day at the range where a young lady had far too intimate an experience with a 9x18 (or a 7.62x25) case, and she shucked out of two t shirts and a sports bra faster than a magic act card trick. weapon was pointed down range. I put my attention back where it belonged, down range (learned long ago that unintentionally topless redheads with pistols are not to be trifled with).

Sensitive indeed! Sounds like a great day at the range (for you)!!

 

[Shaq]

I've seen a few cases of ladies catching hot brass down the front of their shirt. Judging from the response, it burned.

I'm not referring to actual damage caused by a burn; I'm referring to some pain. A burn can hurt without causing any damage to skin.

 

[45_auto]

I can't imagine any case from a pistol getting hot enough to burn.

My son has a scar over one eye where a piece of .45 ACP brass got stuck between his glasses and his face.

He has the use of only one arm, by the time he could put the pistol down and knock it loose it had left a nasty burn.

He was shooting with his cap on backwards at the time (brim of the cap covering his neck). He now wears his cap with the brim shielding his eyes when he shoots.

 

[jmorris]

This seems like a freak accident, I wouldn't go placing all the blame on the father.

And that's what we have become in the Country, part of the blame goes to the gun, some more to the ammunition manufacturer, of course the range owner and everyone else there. Only the victim was innocent no matter where he was standing.

Pretty simple never point a gun at something you do not intend to destroy and keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to destroy it.

Is it tragic, absolutely. Was it intentional, absolutely not. Was it the fault of the person with the firearm, yes.

 

[Tobinator]

I've seen a few cases of ladies catching hot brass down the front of their shirt. Judging from the response, it burned.

Yup. My first trip to the range, I wore a V-neck t-shirt and got hot brass in my bra *twice.* I quickly set the gun down, muzzle pointing downrange, before dealing with the casing. I was already fanatical about safety even at that point. (I had a little superficial burn that took a couple weeks to fully heal.)

Here in Phoenix I live in sandals, so I've occasionally gone to the range in sandals (not flip-flops, I draw the line there). I've gotten good at flicking hot brass off me without pointing the gun anywhere unsafe. Feet are easy. But no more V-necks.


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[Tirod]

Army Standard is the top of the jacket fastened, Kevlar, sleeves down regardless of season. It seems to work ok. Should we make that the standard for shooting fashion?

The issue is the shooter reacting with no muzzle discipline. It's a sudden unexpected sharp pain - it could happen at any time you are shooting and especially when in close circumstances.

So it could happen defending yourself or family at home, in a nightclub, mall, or Walmart - a hot case lands on you while in a firefight. Will you react and accidently shoot a bystander or family member? It can obviously happen then as now in this range incident conducted in the safest of circumstances.

How to train for hot brass to get used to it? How about a funnel around the neck? You fight like you train, we should be getting used to hot brass, not avoiding it.

OR - if you ever plan to shoot in self defense, you need to dress to prevent getting hot brass in your shirt wherever you might be. Now we are back to Kevlar and buttoned up sleeves down at a Ruby's cafeteria or nightclub . . .

Interesting tactical issue, how do you train for hot brass in the middle of a life threatening situation? I know for a fact it will happen in real life, plenty of times my teammate showered me with hot blank casings in military training in the field, and I am certain beyond a shadow of a doubt it will happen on a firing line in qualifying. No gun is guaranteed a defined permanent ejection pattern.

So maybe its not range clothing, it's life clothing for those who carry "24/7." I've read and seen what motorcyclists recommend as the minimum protective clothing - yet see people riding in T shirts, shorts, and flip flops. What is your minimum standard in carry attire?

 

[coondogger]

"It's a muzzle discipline issue, not a range attire issue." Egg Zakly. Number one rule of gun safety, and I quote: "ALWAYS keep your muzzle pointed in a safe direction." Not "keep your muzzle pointed in a safe direction unless something else arises, such as a bee sting, a hot casing, or any other distraction."

 

[BigDinVT]

Condolances to the father

I'm left-handed and started shooting AR's with the M16A1 -- no built-in brass deflector. More than a few casings went down the front of my OG Utility shirt and the T-shirt didn't help in keeping the brass from making contact with my skin. I learned to live with it. Then they came up with the clip-on brass deflector (that I could never get a hold of). I learned to take time, make safe the firearm then deal with the errant casing or just put up with it until the firing table was over.

I didn't get away from brass going down my shirt until they came up with the built-in brass deflector. Now my son takes some personal mischievous enjoyment out of taking the position immediately to my left so he can throw his ejected brass at me.

Being on a shooting range takes work. You must know the state of your firearm; maintain good muzzle, trigger and safety discipline; think about what you're doing at all times and know who and what is going on around you. I find it important to critique myself constantly while on the range - what did I get wrong; what can I do better and am I presenting a good role model for other shooters so they can improve.

My heart goes out to this father. I often go to the range with my son and would be devastated if he died at my hands because of my carelessness. I know I'm not perfect and I never want to feel what this father will have to live with for the rest of his life.

Do not become casual as you become familiar.

 

[1911 guy]

I've been on the line and had hot brass down my shirt. It hurts and you attempt to deal with it. But dealing with it means keeping the muzzle downrange.

I also had a drop of sweat roll down my back and went to wipe it away, except it wasn't a drop of sweat. It was a carpenter bee that took exception to being crunched between my hand and back. Nailed me. I squished him with my left hand through the shirt, whereupon he got me again in the hand through my shirt.

Muzzle stayed downrange, although the people in the adjoining lanes might have learned a few new words.

 

[steven58]

This was a worst case scenario ND caused by a lapse in muzzle discipline. I can't imagine the horror of negligently causing your own child's death. My prayers are with this family.

When using my local outdoor pistol range with other shooters I occasionally move laterally so I am deliberately in the path of the ejecting brass. I time my course of fire so I'm shooting while the brass is raining down. I wear ears, eyes , a buttoned up short sleeve shirt, shorts, closed footwear and a brimmed hat as a summer minimum.

When training others, part of my instruction is to place them to my right as a disarmed observer with optics and have them call my shots while experiencing .22 rim fire brass falling on them.

 

[slickracer]

Precisely why I shoot revolvers.

 

[Tobinator]

I explain the reason for the protection & give the hot brass warning w instruction to keep the muzzle down range. Any inexperienced shooter needs coaching on what to expect.

That's good advice. As soon as I read that story, I went and thanked my husband for warning me about hot brass before taking me to the range the first time. Knowing to expect it helped me handle it safely. We'll be taking family members there soon who are new to shooting, and they'll get the same warning.




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[Bula]

Prayers for the family. Horrible to hear.

 

[giggitygiggity]

It has a lot to do about discipline. If you shoot enough, you'll inevitably get burned by hot brass. I've had it happen many times. It stings for a few seconds and will usually leave a red mark for a couple days. Sometimes, it will cause scarring. However, when I shoot, I know this possibility exists and I know that if I get hit with hot brass, I have two options... Ignore it and continue doing what I'm doing or put my weapon on safe, point it down range, set it down, and tend to the hot brass. I've done both before. You just can't freak out as the gun and round in the chamber don't care if you're uncomfortable.

 

[JohnKSa]

Precisely why I shoot revolvers.

I guess that could work if you never shoot next to anyone who has an autochucker...

 

[Hanzo581]

So now that I read the article, I am starting to piece this together, apparently he shot up and it ricocheted off the ceiling and down on his son. Crazy. I am not sure I could ever touch a gun again had this happened to me, but he's still carrying on.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/04/us/florida-father-shoots-son/

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I agree with you but those less frequent shooters who aren't as disciplined are a real issue. Having had my fair share of hot brass down shirts, what I now wear at a minimum is a collared shirt that I can button. That helps quite a bit. If possible I prefer a wide brimmed had over a baseball style cap. In self defense classes where there is much more flying brass I wear one of those tactical style scarves ot those spandexy circular ones you get at a Home Depot type store you can soak in water to stay cool and keep around your neck.

 

[j1]

Safe gun handling is more important here than safe range clothing.

 

[buck460XVR]

I saw the story. It's a muzzle discipline issue, not a range attire issue.

^^^. Regardless of whether or not a fresly ejected .22 case can burn the skin, or whether or not one would react either from surprise or pain to one doen their shirt, has nuttin' to do with the boy being shot. The muzzle of the gun had to be turned 180 degrees from the firing position and the fathers finger still on the trigger. Two major rules of gun safety violated. If we all would pay more attention to our muzzles and trigger finger, attire would only make for the shooters safety and comfort. Would better/different attire have saved the boy's life? Yes, maybe in this one rare scenario. But continued poor gun handling techniques by the father would always put others at risk.